<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Well most folks that are gay or lesbian might not mind letting me know whereas they might lie to you. That might account for the difference in our perceptions. Not that the percentages are relevant to the issue, as Bear notes.<br><br>Joe Campbell</div><div><br>On May 21, 2009, at 5:13 PM, "g. crabtree" <<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Funny. Your ursine pal quotes from the same study I
cited (The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United
States - Laumann, Gagnon, Michael, Michaels) as well as the hugely
discredited Kinsey report in a failed attempt to bear up his spurious
assertion of 10% of America's population being gay and yet you find my
numbers...curious. Could it be that Yogi's numbers "look better" because
they more closely match up with your preconceived notions?</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">g</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">----- Original Message ----- </font>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">From: "Joe Campbell" <</font><a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">To: <</font><a href="mailto:bear@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">bear@moscow.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Cc: "g. crabtree" <</font><a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">jampot@roadrunner.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">>;
<</font><a href="mailto:bear@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">bear@moscow.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">>; "Tom Hansen"
<</font><a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">thansen@moscow.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">>; "Moscow Vision
2020" <</font><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:02 AM</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Air Force Boots Top
Aviator</font></div></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><br><font size="2"></font></font></div><font face="Arial" size="2">> This looks better.<br>> <br>> The Crabtree information,
including the citation, is in quotes, <br>> indicating it was lifted
from a website or whatever. I wonder where it <br>> came from.<br>>
<br>> You're right, though, Bear the percentage is irrelevant. <br>>
Discrimination is wrong regardless of the percentage. But the Crabtree
<br>> numbers are ... curious.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Joe
Campbell<br>> <br>> On May 21, 2009, at 7:33 AM, </font><a href="mailto:bear@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">bear@moscow.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2"> wrote:<br>>
<br>>><br>>> I think we are trying to count how many angels can
dance on the head <br>>> of a<br>>> pin, and depending on what
study you use, the numbers vary.<br>>><br>>> The bottom line is,
they have a right to serve, let them!<br>>><br>>> The average ratio
from several studies are that 9.37% of men are<br>>> homosexual and 4.87%
of women are homosexual in the US. The Central<br>>> Intelligence Agency
estimates that there are 149,346,264 men and<br>>> 154,478,382 women in
the US which would statistically equate to <br>>>
13,993,745<br>>> gay men & 7,523,097 lesbians in the US for a total of
just over 21.5<br>>> Million.<br>>><br>>> In 1995, a survey
(The prevalence of homosexual behavior and <br>>> attraction
in<br>>> the United States, the United Kingdom and France: Results of
national<br>>> population-based samples - Sell, Wells, and Wypij) reported
6.2% of <br>>> males<br>>> and 3.6% of females in the United
States report having had sexual <br>>> contact<br>>> with
someone of the same sex in the previous 5 years.<br>>><br>>> A 1994
study (The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices <br>>>
in<br>>> the United States - Laumann, Gagnon, Michael, Michaels)
reported <br>>> that the<br>>> incidence rate of homosexual
desire for men is 7.7% and 7.5% for <br>>>
women.<br>>><br>>> A 1993 study (The Janus Report on Sexual Behavior
- Janus and Janus) <br>>> found<br>>> 9% of men and 5% of
women were involved in frequent or ongoing <br>>>
homosexual<br>>> experiences.<br>>><br>>> A 1990 study
(Homosexuality/Heterosexuality by McWhirter, Sanders, and<br>>> Reinisch)
stated 13.95% of males and 4.25% of females had <br>>> "extensive"
or<br>>> "more than incidental" homosexual
experience.<br>>><br>>> The Indiana University Kinsey Reports
(Sexual Behavior in the Human <br>>> Male -<br>>> Kinsey,
Pomeroy, and Martin/Sexual Behavior in the Human Female - <br>>>
Kinsey,<br>>> Pomeroy, Martin, and Gerhard) reported 10% of males being
more or less<br>>> exclusively homosexual and 2% to 6% of females being
more or less<br>>> exclusively homosexual.<br>>><br>>> ---
<br>>> --- <br>>> --- <br>>> --- <br>>> --- <br>>>
--- <br>>> --- <br>>> --- <br>>> --- <br>>> ---
<br>>> --- <br>>> --- <br>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>><br>>>>
Where is this from?<br>>>><br>>>> Joe
Campbell<br>>>><br>>>> On May 21, 2009, at 6:14 AM, "g.
crabtree" <</font><a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">jampot@roadrunner.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">><br>>>> wrote:<br>>>><br>>>>> "1.51% of
the total U.S. population identifies themselves as gay,<br>>>>>
lesbian or bisexual, or 4.3 total million Americans. These
numbers<br>>>>> are based on figures provided by a broad-based
coalition of gay<br>>>>> rights organizations and homosexual
advocacy groups. The primary<br>>>>> source cited was the The
National Health and Social Life Survey<br>>>>> (NHSLS), published in
the book The Social Organization of Sex:<br>>>>> Sexual Practices in
the United States (1994), by Laumann, Gagnon,<br>>>>> Michael and
Michaels. "<br>>>>><br>>>>>
And,<br>>>>><br>>>>> "Referring to the Laumann study,
the gay rights coalition stated<br>>>>> that in the United States
2.8% of males age 18 or older, and 1.4% of<br>>>>> females age 18 or
older are homosexual, gay, lesbian or bisexual. We<br>>>>> have
applied their figures to the 2003 U.S. population
(284,800,000<br>>>>> total population, according to the U.S. Census
Bureau). 0.9% of<br>>>>> women identify themselves as lesbians
(excluding bisexuals), which<br>>>>> equates to 0.32% of total U.S.
population being lesbians. 2 percent<br>>>>> of men identify
themselves as gay (excluding bisexuals), which<br>>>>> equates to
0.7% of total U.S. population being gay men. Source:<br>>>>>
National study published in Laumann, et al., The Social
Organization<br>>>>> of Sex: Sexual Practices in the United States
(1994)"<br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>>
g<br>>>>> ----- Original Message -----<br>>>>> From:
<</font><a href="mailto:bear@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">bear@moscow.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">><br>>>>> To: "Tom Hansen" <</font><a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">thansen@moscow.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">><br>>>>> Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <</font><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">><br>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:21
PM<br>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Air Force Boots Top
Aviator<br>>>>><br>>>>>>
Tom,<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Honestly the only way that
we can put a number on it is based on<br>>>>> the
fact<br>>>>>> that a nations military forces reflects the
statistics of that<br>>>>> nation. It<br>>>>>> is
estimated that about 10% of the US population is gay,<br>>>>>
therefore, it<br>>>>>> safe to make the assumption that
some where around 6,000 of those<br>>>>> on
the<br>>>>>> Wall were gay (5, 819.5 for those of you out there
doing the math).<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Even more
interesting when you look at those numbers based on WW2<br>>>>>
troop<br>>>>>> numbers, and really more revealing when you
consider that there<br>>>>> have been<br>>>>>> 3,465
Medal of Honor winners, resulting in 346 gay Medal of Honor<br>>>>>
winners.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> I had an old First
Sergeant that used to tell our troops, that one<br>>>>>
in<br>>>>>> three people in America has some sort of
psychological problem. So<br>>>>> in this<br>>>>>>
formation, look to your left, and look to your right, and if
those<br>>>>> two<br>>>>>> guys look OK, it's
YOU!<br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>>>
I have asked this question before, and it bears repeating
again<br>>>>> coupled<br>>>>>>> with serious
concern.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> There are
58,195 names on the Vietnam Memorial
Wall.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> How many, would
you estimate, belong to gay soldiers, sailors,<br>>>>> airmen,
and<br>>>>>>>
marines?<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Pro
patria,<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Tom
Hansen<br>>>>>>> Moscow,
Idaho<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> "Patriotism is not
a short and frenzied outburst of emotion but <br>>>>>>>
the<br>>>>>>> tranquil and steady dedication of a
lifetime."<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> -- Adlai E.
Stevenson,
Jr.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>>
=======================================================<br>>>>>>>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>>>>>>>
serving the communities of the Palouse since
1994.<br>>>>>>>
</font><a href="http://www.fsr.net"><font face="Arial" size="2">http://www.fsr.net</font></a><br><font face="Arial" size="2">>>>>>>
</font><a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><br><font face="Arial" size="2">>>>>>>
=======================================================<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>>
=======================================================<br>>>>>>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>>>>>>
serving the communities of the Palouse since
1994.<br>>>>>>
</font><a href="http://www.fsr.net"><font face="Arial" size="2">http://www.fsr.net</font></a><br><font face="Arial" size="2">>>>>>
</font><a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><br><font face="Arial" size="2">>>>>>
=======================================================<br>>>>>><br>>>>>
=======================================================<br>>>>> List
services made available by First Step Internet,<br>>>>> serving the
communities of the Palouse since
1994.<br>>>>>
</font><a href="http://www.fsr.net"><font face="Arial" size="2">http://www.fsr.net</font></a><br><font face="Arial" size="2">>>>>
</font><a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><br><font face="Arial" size="2">>>>>
=======================================================<br>>>><br>>><br>>><br>></font>
</div></blockquote></body></html>