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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Saundra,<BR>
<BR>
Obviously Ron Force has a better memory than I have on this matter. Sorry for the misinformation.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: vision2020-bounces@moscow.com on behalf of Gier, Nicholas<BR>
Sent: Thu 4/30/2009 11:13 AM<BR>
To: Saundra Lund; Contact - godshatter@yahoo.com; lfalen; Contact - thansen@moscow.com<BR>
Cc: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial Crisis<BR>
<BR>
Hi Saundra,<BR>
<BR>
Yes there was a mandatory furlough for all UI employees in 1981 or 1982 (our last big recession) and one or two days was deducted from our pay checks.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: vision2020-bounces@moscow.com on behalf of Saundra Lund<BR>
Sent: Wed 4/29/2009 1:38 PM<BR>
To: Contact - godshatter@yahoo.com; 'lfalen'; Contact - thansen@moscow.com<BR>
Cc: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial Crisis<BR>
<BR>
No, I believe this was an actual mandatory furlough, according to my friend.<BR>
She's been at the university for her entire career (probably around 30 years<BR>
or so), and I doubt she would make such a confusion given her profession.<BR>
I'll double-check with her again since it's always possible I've<BR>
misunderstood her through the years if no one else can clarify. I seem to<BR>
recall her mentioning it was in the 1980s, but I'm not sure. I've been<BR>
"around" since 1988, and I think it was before that. But, since I'm over my<BR>
daily posting quota, I'll not report back until tomorrow, so I'm hoping<BR>
someone else can clarify sooner J<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Saundra Lund<BR>
<BR>
Moscow, ID<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do<BR>
nothing.<BR>
<BR>
~ Edmund Burke<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2009 through life plus<BR>
70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside<BR>
the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the<BR>
author.*****<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
From: Paul Rumelhart [<A HREF="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com</A>]<BR>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 1:22 PM<BR>
To: 'lfalen'; 'Tom Hansen'; Saundra Lund<BR>
Cc: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial Crisis<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I wonder if they were thinking of the payroll lag? When we changed<BR>
administrative systems, we moved from being paid on Friday for work done the<BR>
bi-week ending that week to being paid on Friday for work done in the<BR>
previous bi-week. In this case, there were at least three options: lose one<BR>
day of pay a bi-week for ten bi-weeks, lose one week of pay a bi-week for<BR>
two bi-weeks, or lose one whole bi-week of pay once. There might have been<BR>
other options I can't remember. The difference, though, is that there was<BR>
no time off associated with it. In effect, it moved one paycheck to the end<BR>
of your job life - you'll get one more bi-week worth of pay after you stop<BR>
working.<BR>
<BR>
I don't know if we ever did an actual furlough before that. I've worked<BR>
here since 1989, and I don't remember one.<BR>
<BR>
They could implement this furlough in lots of different ways. It wouldn't<BR>
have to be all at once.<BR>
<BR>
Paul<BR>
<BR>
--- On Wed, 4/29/09, Saundra Lund <sslund_2007@verizon.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
From: Saundra Lund <sslund_2007@verizon.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial Crisis<BR>
To: "'lfalen'" <lfalen@turbonet.com>, "'Tom Hansen'" <thansen@moscow.com><BR>
Cc: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>
Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 10:52 AM<BR>
<BR>
Roger, one of my friends who has been through the whole furlough deal with<BR>
the UI before told me that you *don't* do without a paycheck -- she said<BR>
that people had a day a week (or maybe every two weeks or once a month -- I<BR>
don't remember) where they didn't work. So, yes, paychecks were reduced<BR>
because people were working fewer hours, *but* their base pay was preserved,<BR>
they were getting something (time off) in return for the reduced paycheck,<BR>
and because they the furlough days were set, people had the opportunity to<BR>
find other small things to try to supplement the income decrease that came<BR>
from the mandatory furlough days.<BR>
<BR>
Now, times are tough all around now, so perhaps opportunities to supplement<BR>
income due to mandatory furloughs will be scarce, but there seems to be<BR>
something less objectionable for most people about having unpaid mandatory<BR>
time off. That's probably not a universal, but it's the case with my<BR>
friends who are staff.<BR>
<BR>
I don't know what happens with faculty when there are mandatory furloughs --<BR>
clearly, it doesn't seem to be fair for classes to be cancelled since<BR>
students have paid for those classes -- does anyone know how that was<BR>
handled with the previous furlough?<BR>
<BR>
And, from Mike's post yesterday, we now know that the whole "I'll take a pay<BR>
cut so that no one loses their job" idea at the UI is misleading since his<BR>
family friend has already lost their job at the UI :-( So, maybe pay cuts<BR>
will keep *some* people from losing their jobs, but it certainly doesn't<BR>
look like it's going to protect *everyone's* jobs, and I think it's<BR>
important in these discussions to realize that.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, I'm still hoping for an answer as to whether the new president will<BR>
take a pay cut if that's what winds up happening to everyone else? Does<BR>
anyone know???<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Saundra Lund<BR>
Moscow, ID<BR>
<BR>
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do<BR>
nothing.<BR>
~ Edmund Burke<BR>
<BR>
***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2009 through life plus<BR>
70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside<BR>
the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the<BR>
author.*****<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: lfalen [<A HREF="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com</A>]<BR>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:35 AM<BR>
To: Tom Hansen<BR>
Cc: Saundra Lund; 'Joe Campbell'; 'Dickow'; vision2020@moscow.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial Crisis<BR>
<BR>
The things to consider on furloughs are: Can you make it with out a pay<BR>
check if you can't find a fill in job and are you eligible for unemployment<BR>
if you take a furlough? If you can not make your payments then it would no<BR>
be a viable option. If you can make it financially then a furlough might be<BR>
preferable to a pay cut.<BR>
Roger<BR>
-----Original message-----<BR>
From: "Tom Hansen" thansen@moscow.com<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:53:04 -0700<BR>
To: "lfalen" lfalen@turbonet.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial Crisis<BR>
<BR>
> I would be more than willing to take a pay cut (including my military<BR>
retirement pension) if it<BR>
> meant saving the job and keeping food on the dinner table of another.<BR>
><BR>
> But, then, I guess that I just ain's as self-serving as some.<BR>
><BR>
> Tom Hansen<BR>
> Moscow, Idaho<BR>
><BR>
> > Saundra<BR>
> > I would be on the fence about furloughs, but agree with your last two<BR>
paragraphs.<BR>
> > Roger<BR>
> > -----Original message-----<BR>
> > From: "Saundra Lund" sslund_2007@verizon.net<BR>
> > Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:54:56 -0700<BR>
> > To: "'Joe Campbell'" philosopher.joe@gmail.com, "'Dickow'"<BR>
dickow@turbonet.com<BR>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial<BR>
Crisis<BR>
> ><BR>
> >> I thought it was an excellent post as well . . . I had the privilege of<BR>
> >> meeting Mr. Dickow last night for the first time & told him so in<BR>
person.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> I also have a question: will the new UI president also be taking a pay<BR>
cut?<BR>
> >> If not, then I see why anyone should have to take one.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> I have another question as well: a couple of friends I have who are<BR>
staff<BR>
> >> members at UI are far more in favor of furloughs than pay cuts to keep<BR>
> >> anyone from being fired. One friend explained it as a pay cut is going<BR>
to<BR>
> >> be a major hardship on many whether it comes from an actual pay cut or<BR>
> >> furlough, but at least with mandatory furloughs, you get something in<BR>
> >> return: some free time and the opportunity to look for a little<BR>
part-time<BR>
> >> gig to make up for the reduced pay from working fewer hours. She said<BR>
> >> that's what she did the last time to keep her head above water. I'm<BR>
> >> wondering what others think about furloughs instead of pay cuts?<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> And, I have a comment as well. I think it truly admirable that so many<BR>
are<BR>
> >> willing to take pay cuts to save the jobs of others in the university<BR>
> >> community! However, I'd be happier if I saw that same caring spirit<BR>
from<BR>
> >> those at the top by them being willing to sacrifice for those at the<BR>
bottom<BR>
> >> who can ill-afford *any* pay cut. There's a *huge* difference, IMHO,<BR>
> >> between taking a pay cut that may cause you to have to skip one of<BR>
several<BR>
> >> vacations this year or not be able to buy a new car and not being able<BR>
to go<BR>
> >> to the doctor what with that $2300 deductible on the only coverage plan<BR>
you<BR>
> >> could afford in the first place or not being able to buy your kids new<BR>
shoes<BR>
> >> or being able to afford to pay your child support.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> The people I know at the lower end of the pay scales have a different<BR>
> >> attitude about these pay cuts: they'd love to be in a position to be<BR>
able<BR>
> >> to comfortably advocate for pay cuts to save jobs. That doesn't mean<BR>
that<BR>
> >> they don't prefer taking pay cuts to losing their own jobs, but it's a<BR>
lot<BR>
> >> harder for them to swallow taking cuts that will threaten their<BR>
families to<BR>
> >> save the jobs of others. Some are very scared about how they'll manage<BR>
to<BR>
> >> live with a pay cut. And, I can't say as I blame them.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >><BR>
> >> JMHO,<BR>
> >> Saundra Lund<BR>
> >> Moscow, ID<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to<BR>
do<BR>
> >> nothing.<BR>
> >> ~ Edmund Burke<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2009 through life<BR>
plus<BR>
> >> 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce<BR>
outside<BR>
> >> the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the<BR>
> >> author.*****<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> >> From: vision2020-bounces@moscow.com<BR>
[<A HREF="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</A>]<BR>
> >> On Behalf Of Joe Campbell<BR>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 5:50 AM<BR>
> >> To: Dickow<BR>
> >> Cc: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial<BR>
Crisis<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> This is a great post. I wonder why no one has responded.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> Joe Campbell<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> On Apr 27, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Dickow <dickow@turbonet.com> wrote:<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> > The problem in my book concerning a 3% cut to state employees is<BR>
> >> > that it is, in effect, a direct tax on a special segment of the<BR>
> >> > state's population. The state would be making up its shortfalls at<BR>
> >> > the expense of state employees. I think that the state shouldn't be<BR>
> >> > thought of as an entity like a company, which might indeed have to<BR>
> >> > trim their employees in some form or other. But in in the case of<BR>
> >> > the state, the employees would be making a sacrifice that directly<BR>
> >> > benefits other people in the state, not the owners of a somel<BR>
> >> > corporation. A more equitable solution to the state's budgetary woes<BR>
> >> > would be to impose a tax of some kind on everyone in the state.<BR>
> >> > Then, everyone might have to kick back 1/2 percent or something, and<BR>
> >> > all would be well. But alas, raising taxes is political NO NO!<BR>
> >> > And... by the way, whatever happened to the state's Emergency Fund.<BR>
> >> > did they spend that already?<BR>
> >> ><BR>
> >> > Bob Dickow, troublemaker<BR>
> >> ><BR>
> >> > -----Original message-----<BR>
> >> > From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe@gmail.com<BR>
> >> > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 09:37:18 -0700<BR>
> >> > To: lfalen lfalen@turbonet.com<BR>
> >> > Subject: [Spam] Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to<BR>
> >> > Financial Crisis<BR>
> >> ><BR>
> >> >> I'm sorry to hear about your wife's situation, Roger. Staff is<BR>
> >> >> getting<BR>
> >> >> the worst of it at WSU, too.<BR>
> >> >><BR>
> >> >> But I still think Nick has a point. Here is one way to put it. Would<BR>
> >> >> you or anyone else on this list be willing to "cut" your pay by<BR>
> >> >> giving<BR>
> >> >> 3% more to the state of ID to help prevent folks at UI from being<BR>
> >> >> fired? If you and others say "yes," then I'm on board, as well!<BR>
> >> >><BR>
> >> >> Joe Campbell<BR>
> >> >><BR>
> >> >> On Apr 27, 2009, at 10:03 AM, lfalen <lfalen@turbonet.com> wrote:<BR>
> >> >><BR>
> >> >>> Joe<BR>
> >> >>> I do no want you or any one else to lose their job. I think that<BR>
pay<BR>
> >> >>> cuts are preferable to layoffs.It is inevitably that some programs<BR>
> >> >>> will be cut. there are no students or very few for a class it will<BR>
> >> >>> be cut. My wife is staff in the PSES department at UI. She runs the<BR>
> >> >>> Soils Pedology Lab. She will receive an award for 40 years of<BR>
> >> >>> service today. She puts in 10 to 12 hours a day and does not get<BR>
> >> >>> comp. time. She had cancer in 2003. She had surgery, chemo,<BR>
> >> >>> radiation and the whole ball of wax. She is still suffering from<BR>
> >> >>> the after affects. She takes a lot of Ibuprofen and diuretics to<BR>
> >> >>> keep on going. She is not yet eligible for full Social Security.<BR>
> >> >>> <snip>....<BR>
> >> ><BR>
> >> > =======================================================<BR>
> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>
> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>
> >> > <A HREF="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>
> >> > <A HREF="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>
> >> > =======================================================<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> =======================================================<BR>
> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>
> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>
> >> <A HREF="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>
> >> <A HREF="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>
> >> =======================================================<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> =======================================================<BR>
> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>
> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>
> >> <A HREF="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>
> >> <A HREF="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>
> >> =======================================================<BR>
> >><BR>
> ><BR>
> > =======================================================<BR>
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>
> > <A HREF="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>
> > <A HREF="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>
> > =======================================================<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change<BR>
and the Realist adjusts<BR>
> his sails."<BR>
><BR>
> - Unknown<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
=======================================================<BR>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>
<A HREF="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A> <BR>
<A HREF="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>
=======================================================<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
<BR>
H</FONT>
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