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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Looks to me as though your going to have to try again. The
point of the post you provide by way of example points to the perpetual double
standard displayed when ever discussion heats up on the V. No suggestion
whatever of what constitutes good manners or an insistence on the application.
Sorry.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=sunilramalingam@hotmail.com
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">Sunil Ramalingam</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:23
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Habeas Corpus
at Bagram</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I can stop with this, or provide more. Let me know your
pleasure. <BR><BR><A
href="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2009-April/063203.html">http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2009-April/063203.html</A><BR><BR><BR>Sunil<BR><BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
From: <A href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</A><BR>To:
<A
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</A><BR>CC:
<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Habeas Corpus at Bagram<BR>Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:57:58
-0700<BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Arbiter of manners? When? Where? Is there an specific
example of this you can point to or is this another example of campbell's
"hyperbole for comic effect" AKA making things up because, sadly, it's the
best you can do?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=sunilramalingam@hotmail.com
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">Sunil Ramalingam</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none"><B>Cc:</B>
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision
2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none"><B>Sent:</B>
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 6:17 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] Habeas Corpus at Bagram</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>It's this sort of post that makes your attempts to become the
arbiter of manners so puzzling.<BR><BR>Sunil<BR><BR>
<HR id=EC_stopSpelling>
From: <A
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</A><BR>To: <A
href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com">ophite@gmail.com</A>; <A
href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</A><BR>Date: Tue, 28
Apr 2009 17:51:05 -0700<BR>CC: <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Habeas Corpus at Bagram<BR><BR>
<STYLE>
</STYLE>
<DIV>
<DIV><EM>"Incidentally, I directed this originally at Gary, but he seems
unwilling to defend torture on its own terms." </EM></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>My goodness isn't the nascent little ambulance
chaser cute when he gets all up on his hind legs and brays about how
others should be ashamed?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The reason that I don't "defend torture" is because
that I see no compelling need to. As I've said before, I do not
believe that waterboarding is torture, I do not believe that the previous
administration had a policy promoting the use of torture, and I don't
think that your pretending to be the arbiter of all that is
righteous, pure and holy necessitates my responding to every idle quack
and query that's directed my way. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Now how's about you knock it off with the phony shame
routine and save it for closing arguments in kiddy court
alright?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ophite@gmail.com href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com">Andreas Schou</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none"><B>To:</B>
<A title=lfalen@turbonet.com href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none"><B>Cc:</B>
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none"><B>Sent:</B>
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:57 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] Habeas Corpus at Bagram</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Roger --<BR><BR>No: just until the cessation of hostilities
in the "war on terror." Which, because it is not a "war" in any meaningful
sense, but rather a massive combined military/law enforcement action,
cannot ever end. <BR><BR>Incidentally, I directed this originally at Gary,
but he seems unwilling to defend torture on its own terms. You, on the
other hand, are not half as clever (or half as moral; I can't tell which).
We did not have an official policy of torture during WWII, when we were
actually faced with destruction by an opponent of equal strength. In the
"War on Terror," we are faced with an enemy that has killed less than
1/10th the number of Americans that died at Normandy. <BR><BR>To resort to
barbarism in the face of such a comparatively minor threat is rank
cowardice. You should be ashamed.<BR><BR>-- ACS<BR><BR>(Incidentally,
Roger: by conceding that waterboarding is torture, you just conceded that
the Bush administration is guilty of a number of crimes. A single instance
of torture, or conspiracy to commit torture, is a federal crime with a
maximum punishment of life imprisonment.)<BR><BR>
<DIV class=EC_EC_gmail_quote>On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 11:12 AM, lfalen
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=EC_EC_gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">I
never said that there should be an indefinite suspension of habeas
corpus. Don't put words in my mouth.<BR>Roger<BR>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>-----Original message-----<BR>From: Andreas Schou <A
href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com">ophite@gmail.com</A><BR>Date: Mon, 27 Apr
2009 14:03:08 -0700<BR>To: lfalen <A
href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</A><BR>Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Habeas Corpus at Bagram<BR><BR>> It was during a
time of armed insurrection, as specified in the<BR>> Constitution.
The United States was rife with traitors, both to our<BR>> principles
and to our government. He did what was necessary. Even accepting<BR>>
the counterfactual that 9/11 was an armed insurrection, the
Constitution<BR>> cannot possibly permit the indefinite suspension of
habeas corpus during a<BR>> permanent war.<BR>><BR>> --
ACS<BR>><BR>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:36 AM, lfalen <<A
href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</A>>
wrote:<BR>><BR>> > Joe<BR>> > What do you think os
Lincoln's suspension of Habeas Corpus?<BR>> > Roger<BR>> >
-----Original message-----<BR>> > From: Joe Campbell <A
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</A><BR>>
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:05:13 -0800<BR>> > To: Andreas
Schou <A href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com">ophite@gmail.com</A><BR>>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Habeas Corpus at Bagram<BR>>
><BR>> > > FYI Hilary Bok is a philosopher. Works in free
will, which is the same<BR>> > > area I work in.<BR>> >
><BR>> > > Joe Campbell<BR>> > ><BR>> > >
On Feb 24, 2009, at 7:35 PM, Andreas Schou <<A
href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com">ophite@gmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR>>
> ><BR>> > > > Hilary Bok at the Washington Monthly
has the best piece I've seen<BR>> > > > about the habeas
corpus rights of prisoners at Bagram. The previous<BR>> > >
> administration's too-clever-by-half reading of U.S. v.
Eisentrager<BR>> > > > (the case upon which the detention
regime at Guantanamo) has led to<BR>> > > > some serious,
and intentional, confusion of the respective<BR>> > > >
jurisdictions of our military and federal courts.<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > <A
href="http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/">http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/</A><BR>>
> > > 2009_02/017017.php<BR>> > > ><BR>> >
> > This article pretty much sums up what I think about
Bagram.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > -- ACS<BR>>
> > >
=======================================================<BR>> >
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since
1994.<BR>> > > >
<A href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>> >
> > mailto:<A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>>
> > >
=======================================================<BR>> >
><BR>> > ><BR>>
><BR>><BR>><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR>
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