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<DIV><EM>"Incidentally, I directed this originally at Gary, but he seems
unwilling to defend torture on its own terms." </EM></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My goodness isn't the nascent little ambulance
chaser cute when he gets all up on his hind legs and brays about how others
should be ashamed?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The reason that I don't "defend torture" is because
that I see no compelling need to. As I've said before, I do not believe
that waterboarding is torture, I do not believe that the previous administration
had a policy promoting the use of torture, and I don't think that your
pretending to be the arbiter of all that is righteous, pure and holy
necessitates my responding to every idle quack and query that's directed my
way. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now how's about you knock it off with the phony
shame routine and save it for closing arguments in kiddy court
alright?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ophite@gmail.com href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com">Andreas Schou</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=lfalen@turbonet.com
href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:57
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Habeas Corpus
at Bagram</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Roger --<BR><BR>No: just until the cessation of hostilities in
the "war on terror." Which, because it is not a "war" in any meaningful sense,
but rather a massive combined military/law enforcement action, cannot ever
end. <BR><BR>Incidentally, I directed this originally at Gary, but he seems
unwilling to defend torture on its own terms. You, on the other hand, are not
half as clever (or half as moral; I can't tell which). We did not have an
official policy of torture during WWII, when we were actually faced with
destruction by an opponent of equal strength. In the "War on Terror," we are
faced with an enemy that has killed less than 1/10th the number of Americans
that died at Normandy. <BR><BR>To resort to barbarism in the face of such a
comparatively minor threat is rank cowardice. You should be ashamed.<BR><BR>--
ACS<BR><BR>(Incidentally, Roger: by conceding that waterboarding is torture,
you just conceded that the Bush administration is guilty of a number of
crimes. A single instance of torture, or conspiracy to commit torture, is a
federal crime with a maximum punishment of life imprisonment.)<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 11:12 AM, lfalen <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com"
target=_blank>lfalen@turbonet.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">I
never said that there should be an indefinite suspension of habeas corpus.
Don't put words in my mouth.<BR>Roger<BR>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>-----Original message-----<BR>From: Andreas Schou <A
href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com" target=_blank>ophite@gmail.com</A><BR>Date:
Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:03:08 -0700<BR>To: lfalen <A
href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com"
target=_blank>lfalen@turbonet.com</A><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Habeas
Corpus at Bagram<BR><BR>> It was during a time of armed insurrection, as
specified in the<BR>> Constitution. The United States was rife with
traitors, both to our<BR>> principles and to our government. He did what
was necessary. Even accepting<BR>> the counterfactual that 9/11 was an
armed insurrection, the Constitution<BR>> cannot possibly permit the
indefinite suspension of habeas corpus during a<BR>> permanent
war.<BR>><BR>> -- ACS<BR>><BR>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:36
AM, lfalen <<A href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com"
target=_blank>lfalen@turbonet.com</A>> wrote:<BR>><BR>> >
Joe<BR>> > What do you think os Lincoln's suspension of Habeas
Corpus?<BR>> > Roger<BR>> > -----Original message-----<BR>>
> From: Joe Campbell <A href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"
target=_blank>philosopher.joe@gmail.com</A><BR>> > Date: Wed, 25 Feb
2009 18:05:13 -0800<BR>> > To: Andreas Schou <A
href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com" target=_blank>ophite@gmail.com</A><BR>>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Habeas Corpus at Bagram<BR>> ><BR>>
> > FYI Hilary Bok is a philosopher. Works in free will, which is the
same<BR>> > > area I work in.<BR>> > ><BR>> > >
Joe Campbell<BR>> > ><BR>> > > On Feb 24, 2009, at 7:35
PM, Andreas Schou <<A href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com"
target=_blank>ophite@gmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR>> > ><BR>> >
> > Hilary Bok at the Washington Monthly has the best piece I've
seen<BR>> > > > about the habeas corpus rights of prisoners at
Bagram. The previous<BR>> > > > administration's
too-clever-by-half reading of U.S. v. Eisentrager<BR>> > > >
(the case upon which the detention regime at Guantanamo) has led to<BR>>
> > > some serious, and intentional, confusion of the
respective<BR>> > > > jurisdictions of our military and federal
courts.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > <A
href="http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/"
target=_blank>http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/</A><BR>>
> > > 2009_02/017017.php<BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
> This article pretty much sums up what I think about Bagram.<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > -- ACS<BR>> > > >
=======================================================<BR>> > >
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> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> > >
> <A
href="http://www.fsr.net" target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>> >
> > mailto:<A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"
target=_blank>Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>> > > >
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><BR>> > ><BR>>
><BR>><BR>><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
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