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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><EM>you admit
that torture happened while denying that anyone in particular (even the lawyers
who set the bar at "pain equal to that caused by death;" even the political
figures who compelled them to produce that opinion) is responsible for it.<FONT
face=Arial size=2>"</FONT></EM></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wrong. I admit that some detainees may have
been mistreated and abused. I do not admit that prisoners were tortured as
an act of administrative policy. Endlessly mischaracterizing my position is not
productive.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></FONT>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ophite@gmail.com href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com">Andreas Schou</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jampot@roadrunner.com
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g. crabtree</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=lfalen@turbonet.com
href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 28, 2009 6:17
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Habeas Corpus
at Bagram</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 5:51 PM, g. crabtree <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
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<DIV>
<DIV class=im>
<DIV><I>"Incidentally, I directed this originally at Gary, but he seems
unwilling to defend torture on its own terms." </I></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My goodness isn't the nascent little ambulance
chaser cute when he gets all up on his hind legs and brays about how
others should be ashamed?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The reason that I don't "defend torture" is
because that I see no compelling need to. As I've said before, I do
not believe that waterboarding is torture, I do not believe that the
previous administration had a policy promoting the use of torture, and
I don't think that your pretending to be the arbiter of all that
is righteous, pure and holy necessitates my responding to every idle
quack and query that's directed my way.
</FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR>Gary --<BR><BR>You keep accusing me of being "on a high horse."
However: you can defend torture from the low-step of a tricycle. Anyone with a
rudimentary conscience, left or right, understands that torture is wrong. To
your credit, you appear to have such a conscience; however, you're having a
problem of cognitive dissonance where you admit that torture happened while
denying that anyone in particular (even the lawyers who set the bar at "pain
equal to that caused by death;" even the political figures who compelled them
to produce that opinion) is responsible for it.<BR><BR>Roger has had the
courage of his so-called convictions, and is defending torture-qua-torture;
torture under its own name. You, on the other hand, seem to lack a commitment
to any principle other than partisanship. I'm just wondering that if the FBI,
OLC, CIA inspector general, the general responsible for investigating Abu
Ghraib, and media reports aren't enough evidence for you, what would be? Do
you always take the testimony of criminals above the testimony of those hired
to investigate them? If so, is there any way that Sunil can ensure that you're
on all of his juries?<BR><BR>--
ACS<BR></DIV></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>