<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 5:13 PM, g. crabtree <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">With your very first sentence you once again
mischaracterize what it was I said. I did not concede that the things
you mention took place. Just because you've read something in the huffington
post and/or the new york times and regurgitate it here doesn't make it a
verified fact. You don't know for certain, you were not there, you are electing
to take someone at there word. Show me evidence and I'll concede that those
events occurred and not before.</font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Typical. I reasonably thought you were conceding these things because they happen to be easily verifiable. So I'm going to reach for the primary sources again. Note that I am being conservative in my claims, here, because you will not accept the validity of any mainstream journalism. Did I mention that this is insane? So here we go:<br>
<br>"Abuses occurred." See the Taguba Report. Pick a page. You can find it here:<br><br><a href="http://news.findlaw.com/nytimes/docs/iraq/tagubarpt.html">http://news.findlaw.com/nytimes/docs/iraq/tagubarpt.html</a><br>
<br>Hypo and hyperthermia, stress positions, sleep deprivation, detainees forced to defecate on themselves. Find it here:<br><br><a href="http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/guantanamo.htm" target="_blank">http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/guantanamo.htm</a>, and the relevant portion may be found in Part 1; the actual emails are in Part 2.<br>
<br>In order to be torture, pain must be equal to that caused by organ failure or death:<br><br><a href="http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/olc-interrogation.pdf">http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/olc-interrogation.pdf</a>, page 38.<br>
<br>Incidentally, the FBI's interrogators withdrew from interrogations at GTMO entirely after their interrogators refused to participate in what they thought were war crimes. The ACLU link is to a document obtained from the FBI's OIC. <br>
<br><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/opinion/23soufan.html">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/opinion/23soufan.html</a>, or<br><a href="http://www.aclu.org/pdfs/safefree/OIG_052008_8_57.pdf">http://www.aclu.org/pdfs/safefree/OIG_052008_8_57.pdf</a>, page 34<br>
<br>Let me repeat the questions I've asked you three times before, and which you've refused to answer all three times.What are the facts as you believe them to be? Did we waterboard? Did we
leave detainees shackled to the ceiling, stewing in their own shit? How
about week-long periods of sleep deprivation over years of detention?
Did we do that? Do you think this is consistent with our values? Do
you think we should be ordering US servicemen to do this sort of thing?
Is that consistent with a duty to protect the honor of our servicemen
and intelligence officers?<br><br>-- ACS<br></div></div>