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You suffer from the same misconception that gets so many of my clients in trouble: Your opinions do not reflect the law.<br><br>Your understandings appear to be based on your wholesale acceptance of the rationales offered by war criminals to cover their asses. Why aren't you so blindly accepting the rest of the time?<br><br>Sunil<br><br><br>> From: jampot@roadrunner.com<br>> To: godshatter@yahoo.com; lfalen@turbonet.com; bear@moscow.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br>> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:16:08 -0700<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "Harsh" Interrogations -As ye sow, so shall you<br>> <br>> This seems to me to be a fair question. If it's considered torture to put a <br>> guy in a box with a caterpillar, what about a cell with a fellow terrorist? <br>> It's really just a matter of degree. If depriving an unlawful combatant of <br>> sleep is torture what about not allowing the poor dears to sleep in on the <br>> weekends? Stress positions criminal? What about not providing orthopedic <br>> queen sized beds and massaging barcoloungers? Pouring water on their ugly <br>> mugs too harsh? What about insisting that the prisoners take a monthly <br>> shower whether they need it of not?<br>> <br>> Rape as torture? To be sure although I'll take it over having my skin <br>> removed with eyebrow tweezers, being lowered into a chipper shredder up to <br>> my navel, being beaten with rods till the number of broken bones exceeds <br>> ones I.Q. (I know, I know a few fingers and a rib in my particular case) a <br>> week or two of ground glass suppers and battery acid enemas or being rubbed <br>> in fat and roasted till your so overcooked the New York Times food critic <br>> would send you back to the chef and write a scathing review in the Sunday <br>> style edition.<br>> <br>> Who ever remarked that there ought to be a line over which we do not go is <br>> correct. There is a difference between a harsh interrogation and torture. In <br>> my opinion we did a pretty fine job of walking that line. Had the <br>> interrogators indeed been sadistic torturers and not just asking poignant <br>> questions firmly we should be seeing a trail of corpses and cripples, not a <br>> gaggle of surly Sunni's and snippy Shiites anxious to be released and take a <br>> second shot at killing and maiming Americans. It's my understanding that the <br>> interrogation of these criminals resulted in good information and saved <br>> lives and the men who brought us that result should be commended, not <br>> condemned.<br>> <br>> g<br>> <br>> ----- Original Message ----- <br>> From: <bear@moscow.com><br>> To: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter@yahoo.com>; "lfalen" <lfalen@turbonet.com>; <br>> <bear@moscow.com>; <vision2020@moscow.com><br>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 4:28 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "Harsh" Interrogations -As ye sow, so shall you<br>> <br>> <br>> > Roger,<br>> ><br>> > WHERE do you draw the line as far as "technique" is concerned?<br>> > IF the alleged terrorist is a woman, is it ok to rape her till she tells <br>> > us about the plot<br>> > to bomb<br>> > LA?<br>> > Or a man for that matter?<br>> ><br>> > AND remember, IF it's justified for the US to do it, it is justified for <br>> > everyone else<br>> > too!<br>> ><br>> > The reason it's referred to as a "slippery slope" is that the only <br>> > direction to go is DOWN<br>> > HILL!<br>> ><br>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> ><br>> >> That's an extremely dangerous point of view, Roger. How far do you take<br>> >> it? It's possible that daily random inspections of citizen's houses by<br>> >> SWAT teams could yield some data. Or that torturing every Muslim in<br>> >> America would also yield results. The Internet could be used to pass<br>> >> encrypted information between terrorist cells, maybe it should be shut<br>> >> down? Perhaps a "shoot-on-sight" curfew would help make us safer from<br>> >> the threat of terrorism?<br>> >><br>> >> I'm tired of this country being run by a bunch of cowards. Draw a moral<br>> >> line in the sand, and stick to it. Do what is right because it is<br>> >> right, not because it is expedient.<br>> >><br>> >> Paul<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> lfalen wrote:<br>> >> > Bear<br>> >> > You are wrong on this.<br>> >> > Because a confession was extracted fron this lady does not mean that <br>> >> > she was a spy.<br>> > What<br>> > we may have done at GITMO had no bearing on how Iran conducts <br>> > interrogations. They would<br>> > use brutal tactics no matter what we do.<br>> >> > As to our security I believe the following:<br>> >> > 1. If an interrogator thinks that there is good reason to believe a <br>> >> > detainee has<br>> > information of an impending attack and does not use what ever means is <br>> > necessary to obtain<br>> > that information and<br>> >> > 2 There is a subsequent attack that results in a loss of life.then<br>> >> > 3. Those interrogators should be prosecuted for dereliction of duty.<br>> >> > Former CIA Director Casey said that over 50% of the valid information <br>> >> > about al-Quaeda<br>> > came from detainees and that an attack on L.A was thwarted by information <br>> > obtained from<br>> > KSM.<br>> >> > Roger<br>> >> ><br>> >> > -----Original message-----<br>> >> > From: bear@moscow.cotwo year period? How about ten years?m<br>> >> > Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 20:50:18 -0700<br>> >> > To: vision2020@moscow.com<br>> >> > Subject: [Vision2020] "Harsh" Interrogations -As ye sow, so shall you <br>> >> > reep<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> >> Well, what we have said is fine, is now coming back to bite us.<br>> >> >><br>> >> >> American-Iranian journalist Roxana Saberi was sentenced to eight <br>> >> >> years' jail on<br>> > Saturday<br>> >> >> after<br>> >> >> being convicted in a secret trial of spying for the United States. Her <br>> >> >> Iranian-born<br>> >> >> father, Reza<br>> >> >> Saberi, says she may have been tricked into a confession, believing <br>> >> >> she would be<br>> > released<br>> >> >> if<br>> >> >> she co-operated with the authorities. He said his daughter was so <br>> >> >> depressed by her<br>> >> >> sentence -<br>> >> >> the harshest ever given to a dual national on security charges in <br>> >> >> Iran - that she is<br>> >> >> threatening<br>> >> >> to go on hunger strike.<br>> >> >><br>> >> >> Will they force feed her like we have force fed the prisoners at <br>> >> >> Guantánamo Bay<br>> > Detention<br>> >> >> Camp when they have gone on hunger strikes? IF they do, what makes us <br>> >> >> think we have a<br>> >> >> right<br>> >> >> to object?<br>> >> >><br>> >> >> Did they use enhanced interrogation techniques to discover that she <br>> >> >> was a spy? And<br>> >> >> remember,<br>> >> >> she was arrested for SPYING. If she was in the United States could we <br>> >> >> have sued<br>> > enhanced<br>> >> >> interrogation techniques? US Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia <br>> >> >> said on BBC Radio<br>> > 4<br>> >> >> that<br>> >> >> since these methods are not intended to punish they do not violate the <br>> >> >> Eighth<br>> > Amendment<br>> > to<br>> >> >><br>> >> >> the United States Constitution, barring "cruel and unusual <br>> >> >> punishment", and as such<br>> > may<br>> ><br>> >> >> not<br>> >> >> be unconstitutional.<br>> >> >><br>> >> >> Well, we started this dog fight, now we pay. How do we get back on the <br>> >> >> moral high<br>> > ground<br>> >> >> where this kind of behavior from ANY GOVERNMENT is wrong? I believe it <br>> >> >> starts with<br>> > the<br>> ><br>> >> >> indictment and arrest of George W. Bush et al. Or don't they think <br>> >> >> they'd get a fair<br>> >> >> trial? They<br>> >> >> sure as hell would get better treatment awaiting trial than they gave!<br>> >> >><br>> >> >><br>> >> >><br>> >> >> ---------------------------------------------<br>> >> >> This message was sent by First Step Internet.<br>> >> >> http://www.fsr.com/<br>> >> >><br>> >> >><br>> >> >><br>> >> >><br>> >> >><br>> >> ><br>> >> > =======================================================<br>> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> >> > http://www.fsr.net<br>> >> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> >> > =======================================================<br>> >><br>> >><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > ---------------------------------------------<br>> > This message was sent by First Step Internet.<br>> > http://www.fsr.com/<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> <br>> <br>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> <br>> <br>> > =======================================================<br>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> > http://www.fsr.net<br>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > ======================================================= <br>> <br>> <br>> =======================================================<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> http://www.fsr.net <br>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> =======================================================<br></body>
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