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Bear (my friend!),<br><br>I agree with some of what you say about ignoring Donovan. My point is that his discussion of the issues -- something I readily admit he infrequently offers -- should be the focus of any response, or at least the ones I make. It's the snotty, juvenile crap that I want to ignore, unless he directly slanders or otherwise attacks good people on a level that's simply unacceptable. My standard on that is if my silence in any way is assent, regardless of how anyone else responds. Having been ripped to shreds by the real Donovan a few years ago, I know how low he/whoever he is can go, but in my engagement with him I like to try to rebuke the indefensible (the "silence is assent" standard) while trying to steer back on topic. <br><br>And when he calls you names and ignorantly and abusively degrades your service to our country, your intellect, and your character, that's one of those "silence/assent" obligations I freely take on. I don't, however, have any interest in defending myself from Donovan, for whom I have great compassion only occasionally tempered, I hope, by complete frustration over his bad behavior.<br><br>Keely<br>http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/<br><br><br><br><br>> To: kjajmix1@msn.com; donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com; sunilramalingam@hotmail.com; vision2020@moscow.com; bear@moscow.com<br>> From: bear@moscow.com<br>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] BACK to the Original Question<br>> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:30:44 +0000<br>> <br>> Keely,<br>> <br>> I agree with you about the "ghost writer"! And dealing with Donovan is like dealing with<br>> the <br>> teenage that slaughters his family and when he's called to account for it wants sympathy <br>> because he's now an orphan!<br>> <br>> But, like along Sunil, I'm not going to let him get away with it. He needs to be<br>> confronted by <br>> FACTS every time he comes up with his nonsense. Please jump in and don't ignore him. With <br>> the advent of the internet and discussion groups like Vision 2020, we have all been given <br>> access to the "soap box". If we ignore people like Donovan, he gets away with it!<br>> <br>> Before he called the Constitution pond scum, "But even if you must agree that our<br>> Constitution <br>> calls for pond scum and has a needed purpose in society, it is still pond scum." He asked<br>> about <br>> the legal careers of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, "Tell me, how many child molesters, <br>> murders, and rapists did Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, the original defenders of the <br>> Constitution, free." I did, and notice he hasn't responded? We, the people, cannot let<br>> this kind <br>> of behavior go unchecked, and if we do, the kooks of the world take over!!!<br>> <br>> Wayne<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> > <br>> > I just wrote that we should start ignoring Donovan, and then I read this.<br>> > <br>> > Wayne -- bear -- is a good friend of mine, far more intelligent,<br>> decent> , and respectable (never mind respectful) than most people I've ever<br>> met.> Deciding to join in the discussion on Vision should not result in<br>> screami> ng, flailing, hair-grabbing tantrums like the one below.<br>> > <br>> > And now I plan to -- plan to -- ignore Donovan.<br>> > <br>> > Keely<br>> > http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:22:16 -0700<br>> > From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>> > To: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com; vision2020@moscow.com; bear@moscow.com<br>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] BACK to the Original Question<br>> > <br>> > Wayne,<br>> > <br>> > It is obvious you aren't an attorney, I know you have to be able to pass<br>> > law school and the bar, a feat far past your competence. But it is also<br>> o> bvious you have no spine by hiding behind a psuesdo handle. Even your so<br>> ca> lled friends have condemed the practice of using a false identity and<br>> attac> king others. Although it might just be that they only condemn the practice<br>> > when it happens to their friends and not others. Perhaps you can chalk up<br>> y> our dishonesty to defending the Constitution. I am sure you and Sunil can<br>> c> ome up with some fantango language and explaination as to why your<br>> unethica> l behavior is really ethical. <br>> > <br>> > Reality is, Moscow is a small, tiny town, your emails leave an IP<br>> add> ress footprint, I know your first name is Wayne, and I will eventually<br>> > find out who you are.. There are other people that monitor this list that<br>> t> ell me who people are when they try this sort of thing. You are not the<br>> fi> rst.<br>> > <br>> > So you can either tell us now,or I will tell everybody later. <br>> > <br>> > Best Regards,<br>> > <br>> > Donovan<br>> > <br>> > --- On Fri, 4/17/09, bear@moscow.com <bear@moscow.com> wrote:<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > From: bear@moscow.com <bear@moscow.com><br>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] BACK to the Original Question<br>> > To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>, "Sunil Ramalingam"<br>> <> sunilramalingam@hotmail.com>, "vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com>,<br>> be> ar@moscow.com<br>> > Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 3:46 PM<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > Been a long time since I was called out to the school yard like that<br>> Donova> n! Many folks<br>> > on the <br>> > list, and that read the list know me, and at this point, you have no<br>> > idea how much<br>> > pleasure it <br>> > gives me to frost your butt by you not knowing me and keeping you<br>> wondering> !<br>> > <br>> > And please, quit accusing Ralph Nielsen of being ME! And I have not<br>> attac> ked you any more <br>> > than you have attacked others! As ye sow, so shall ye reep! Next thing<br>> yo> u know, you'll<br>> > accuse <br>> > me of being an attorney! LOL<br>> > <br>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------> --<br>> ---<br>> > > Bear, Why don't you have the courage to use your real name? You attack<br>> > me<br>> > p> ersonally, but do so cowardly behind anonymity? <br>> > > <br>> > > Best Regards,<br>> > > <br>> > > Donovan<br>> > > <br>> > > --- On Fri, 4/17/09, bear@moscow.com <bear@moscow.com> wrote:<br>> > > <br>> > > <br>> > > From: bear@moscow.com <bear@moscow.com><br>> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] BACK to the Original Question<br>> > > To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com>, "vision 2020"<br>> > <vision> 2020@moscow.com><br>> > > Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 11:05 AM<br>> > > <br>> > ><br>> > <br>> > > Sunil,<br>> > > <br>> > > I guess what bothers me the most about it becoming a personal attack<br>> > agains> t you as<br>> > > opposed <br>> > > to a vigorous argument against what the issue at hand is.<br>> > > <br>> > > He seems to think that defense lawyers should not defend clients with<br>> > vigor> or use all of<br>> > > the <br>> > > tools that are provided by law, which WOULD make them snakes! Why<br>> don'> t<br>> > > people realize<br>> > > that <br>> > > the most vile offenders are the ones that need a zealous defense the<br>> most> ,<br>> > > and that's the<br>> > > way <br>> > > the system is designed to work! Just because you defend a client,<br>> doesn> 't<br>> > m> ean you condone<br>> > > <br>> > > what they are alleged to have done, nor do you share the same<br>> beliefs!> <br>> > > <br>> > > AND, it seems based on the last election here in Latah County, that<br>> t> he<br>> > Peo> ple of Latah<br>> > > County <br>> > > have no problem with the results of the prosecution<br>> > of the child molester<br>> > c> ase that he is<br>> > > so <br>> > > upset about. We just had an election back in November and there was a<br>> > choic> e between a new<br>> > > <br>> > > county prosecutor or the same one that was involved in the child<br>> > moleste> r case. The<br>> > > People <br>> > > spoke and are happy with the ability of a child molester to walk the<br>> > street> s, or they<br>> > > would have <br>> > > changed the elected officer that enabled that.<br>> > > <br>> > > And as far as the sun rising in the east is concerned, it shouldn't!<br>> > Doesn'> t God know that<br>> > > means <br>> > > the sun comes up over the slave owning, wife beating, 8 year old<br>> bri> de<br>> > m> arrying Moslems <br>> > > first? They should be denied sun until they change their evil ways! *S*<br>> > ><br>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------> --> --<br>> > --<br>> > > > Typical, and predictable as the sun rising in the East.<br>> > When Donovan is<br>> > > w> rong he can't admit it, and if I call him on it he will launch into<br>> > this<br>> > > > slimy attack. Kind of like a jellyfish.<br>> > > > <br>> > > > He's an interesting case study. The prolapse has clearly extruded his<br>> > > enti> re brain, yet he retains sufficient coordination to operate a<br>> > keyboar> d.<br>> > > > <br>> > > > Sunil<br>> > > > <br>> > > > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:28:46 -0700<br>> > > > From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>> > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] BACK to the Original Question<br>> > > > To: vision2020@moscow.com; sunilramalingam@hotmail.com;<br>> > > thansen@moscow.> com; bear@moscow.com<br>> > > > <br>> > > > Sorry, I disagree. <br>> > > > <br>> > > > I do agree with what the Ten Commandments say. But I think lots of<br>> peop> le<br>> > > d> isagree with what the Ten Commandments intend and imply. <br>> > > > <br>> > > > What I think is a crock is their release. The reality is, child<br>> > > molesters> are free, in part, because of the actions of Sunil. You<br>> c> an<br>> > c> all it<br>> > > wh> atever you want, blame it on anyone else, but that is the<br>> reality> .. <br>> > > > <br>> > > > And I would not be calling the release of child molesters, "due<br>> > > process."> That term is such an injustice to the victims of these<br>> > people> , or shall<br>> > > > I<br>> > call these child molesters, at the risk of offending some liberals on<br>> > > h> ere, monsters. <br>> > > > <br>> > > > Best Regards,<br>> > > > <br>> > > > Donovan<br>> > > > <br>> > > > --- On Fri, 4/17/09, bear@moscow.com <bear@moscow.com> wrote:<br>> > > > <br>> > > > <br>> > > > From: bear@moscow.com <bear@moscow.com><br>> > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] BACK to the Original Question<br>> > > > To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>, "vision 2020"<br>> > > <visio> n2020@moscow.com>, "Sunil Ramalingam"<br>> > <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com>> ,<br>> > > "T> om Hansen" <thansen@moscow.com><br>> > > > Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 8:11 AM<br>> > > > <br>> > > > <br>> > > > Donovan, What a CROCK! <br>> > > > <br>> > > > First you don't believe what the Ten Commandments say, and now you<br>> do> n't<br>> > > > like the way the <br>> > > > law works!<br>> > IF I read the court documents correctly, there was a JUDGE<br>> > > tha> t released him,<br>> > > > not <br>> > > > Sunil! I am sorry that the State of Idaho, as represented by a<br>> > > prosecutor> didn't prove<br>> > > > his/her <br>> > > > case that the individual was a threat to society. You're pointing the<br>> > > finge> r in the WRONG <br>> > > > direction on how the legal system worked in this case!<br>> > > > <br>> > > > <br>> > > > <br>> > > > <br>> > > ><br>> > _________________________________________________________________________><br>> > __> <br>> > > _________________<br>> > > > > Hansen,<br>> > > > > <br>> > > > > Certainly not a lawyer with a forked tongue that misleads people to<br>> > dra> w<br>> > > > > the wrong conclusions and to free child molesters. <br>> > > > > The child molester can at least claim mental illness for this<br>> > > endangermen><br>> > t<br>> > > > > of children. But what can Sunil claim? <br>> > > > > I remember, if my memory<br>> > > > serves me correctly, at how angry Hansen was that<br>> > > > > our local child molester of an eight year old girl, was allowed to<br>> > > driv> e,<br>> > > > w> ithout supervision, to Lewiston. Guess who was, in part,<br>> > > responsib> le for<br>> > > > > his release into the Moscow Public? <br>> > > > > Best Regards,<br>> > > > > <br>> > > > > Donovan <br>> > > > > <br>> > > > > --- On Fri, 4/17/09, Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com> wrote:<br>> > > > > <br>> > > > > <br>> > > > <br>> > > > <br>> > > > <br>> > > <br>> > > <br>> > > <br>> > > <br>> > > <br>> > > <br>> > > ---------------------------------------------<br>> > > This message was sent by<br>> > First Step Internet.<br>> > > http://www.fsr.com/<br>> > > <br>> > > <br>> > ><br>> ========================> =><br>> =======================> ==> =====<br>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> > > http://www.fsr.net <br>> > > <br>> > > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > ><br>> ========================> =><br>> =======================> ==> =====<br>> > ><br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > ---------------------------------------------<br>> > This message was sent by First Step Internet.<br>> > http://www.fsr.com/<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > =========================> =========================> =====<br>> > List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> > http://www.fsr.net <br>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > =========================> =========================> =====<br>> > <br>> > _________________________________________________________________<br>> > Windows Live™: Life without walls.<br>> > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1b_explore_042009> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> ---------------------------------------------<br>> This message was sent by First Step Internet.<br>> http://www.fsr.com/<br>> <br>> <br><br /><hr />Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. <a href='http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_042009' target='_new'>Check it out.</a></body>
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