<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>Hanni, Geneva Convention applies to soldiers. Terrorists are not soldiers, are they?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best Regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan<BR><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 3/31/09, Tom Hansen <I><thansen@moscow.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?<BR>To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>, "Sunil <SPAN>Ramalingam</SPAN>" <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com>, "vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 10:58 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail>How's this for a specific, Arnold?<BR><BR>-----------------------------------------<BR><BR>THE LAW.<BR><BR>----------<BR><BR>Article 3 of the Geneva Convention Accords (adopted on August 12, 1949) at:<BR><BR><A href="http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm" target=_blank>http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm</A><BR><BR>"Article 3 <BR><BR>In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring <BR>in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the <BR>conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions: <BR><BR>1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of <BR>armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat <BR>by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all <BR>circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded <BR>on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth,
or any other <BR>similar criteria. <BR><BR>To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time <BR>and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons: <BR><BR>(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, <BR>mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; <BR><BR>(b) Taking of hostages; <BR><BR>(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and <BR>degrading treatment; <BR><BR>(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without <BR>previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording <BR>all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by <BR>civilized peoples."<BR><BR>-----------------------------------------<BR><BR>THE VIOLATION.<BR><BR>--------------<BR><BR>US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo; in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN <BR><BR><A href="http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2005/06/24/afx2110388.html"
target=_blank>http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2005/06/24/afx2110388.html</A><BR><BR>-----------------------------------------<BR><BR>Is that sufficient?<BR><BR>Tom Hansen<BR>Moscow, Idaho<BR><BR><BR>> Sunil,<BR>> <BR>> You aren't pointing to any specifics, so it is hard to say. <BR>> <BR>> I know that the Constitution allows for the suspension of Habeas Corpus <BR>in<BR>> times of war. I know you think this is a violation of international law<BR>> and the Geneva Convention. <BR>> <BR>> I believe, that the right to preserve the Union outweighs any<BR>international> law, including the dropping of nuclear bombs on millions <BR>of innocent<BR>peopl> e and the denial of terrorists their basic human rights, including <BR>the<BR>righ> t to live or have a fair trial. <BR>> <BR>> Further, I don't see the United States government as having the right to<BR>co> ncede powers
it doesn't have. The people of the United States never<BR>consent> ed to international law. So it isn't valid unless if also happens <BR>to also<BR>b> e federal or state law. <BR>> <BR>> Treaties are simply agreements between to two or more parties. I don't<BR>cons> ider them law abiding. They are simply if and then statements, such <BR>as if<BR>y> ou give a $10 Billion and shut down your ship production I will not bomb<BR>yo> u. If you don't I will continue, or if you allow us to ship in 100 <BR>million<BR>> auto parts, we will allow you to ship in 20 million computer parts if you<BR>d> on't, we won't. <BR>> <BR>> You must have the consent of the governed, international law doesn't.<BR>> <BR>> Best Regards,<BR>> <BR>> Donovan<BR>> <BR>> --- On Tue, 3/31/09, Sunil Ramalingam <<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sunilramalingam@hotmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</A>> <BR>wrote:<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> From: Sunil Ramalingam <<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" ymailto="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</A>><BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?<BR>> To: <BR>> Cc: "vision 2020" <<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>><BR>> Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 8:53 AM<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> #yiv1929964352 .hmmessage P<BR>> {<BR>> margin:0px;padding:0px;}<BR>> #yiv1929964352 {<BR>> font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}<BR>> <BR>> Which treaties are you talking about?<BR>> <BR>> It seems to me you can't point at anything to support your position. <BR>You> 're simply saying 'Might makes
right.'<BR>> <BR>> Sunil<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 07:11:50 -0700<BR>> From: <A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A><BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?<BR>> To: <A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" ymailto="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</A><BR>> CC: <A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Sunil,<BR>> <BR>> If a treaty violates the Constitution, it isn't a valid treaty is it?<BR>> <BR>> Best Regards,<BR>> <BR>> Donovan<BR>> <BR>> --- On Tue, 3/31/09, Sunil Ramalingam <<A
href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" ymailto="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</A>> <BR>wrote:<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> From: Sunil Ramalingam <<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" ymailto="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</A>><BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?<BR>> To: <BR>> Cc: "vision 2020" <<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>><BR>> Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 6:51 AM<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> #yiv1929964352 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv657394139 .EC_hmmessage P<BR>> {padding:0px;}<BR>> #yiv1929964352 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv657394139<BR>> {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}<BR>> <BR>> Donovan,<BR>> <BR>> Is it correct that you
cannot cite a legal basis for your position that <BR>we<BR>> are allowed to violate international law? So far you've offered<BR>examples> of instances where we have apparently done so, but have not <BR>offered a<BR>reas> on or rationale that makes such actions legal.<BR>> <BR>> Is it your position that it is legal for us to do so? If so, how? <BR>> <BR>> I'm talking here of violations of treaties that we have adopted, and<BR>theref> ore are US laws, under our constitution.<BR>> <BR>> Sunil<BR>> <BR>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> =========================> =========================> =====<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> <A href="http://www.fsr.net /"
target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net </A> <BR>> <BR>> mailto:<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>> =========================> =========================> =====<BR>> <BR>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> =========================> =========================> =====<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> <A href="http://www.fsr.net /" target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net </A> <BR>> <BR>>
mailto:<A href="http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>> =========================> =========================> =====<BR><BR><BR><BR>=====<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Join us at The First Annual Intolerista Wingding, April 17th, featuring <BR>Roy Zimmerman and Jeanne McHale. For details go to . . .<BR><BR><A href="http://www.moscowcares.com/Wingding" target=_blank>http://www.MoscowCares.com/Wingding</A><BR><BR>Seeya<BR>there.<BR><BR>---------------------------------------------<BR>This message was sent by First Step Internet.<BR> <A href="http://www.fsr.com/" target=_blank>http://www.fsr.com/</A><BR><BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table><br>