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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>To the best of my knowlage they have not. (hence, why I
wrote what I did) I believe that it should remain that way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=sunilramalingam@hotmail.com
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">Sunil Ramalingam</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:00
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Obama to
Rescind Conscience Rule</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I'm quoting g here. That was from his post responding to
you. I'm not aware of doctors being forced to perform abortions in this
country, though I'm certainly willing to be educated if that's
happened.<BR><BR>Sunil<BR><BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 18:57:44 -0800<BR>From: <A
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A><BR>Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Obama to Rescind Conscience Rule<BR>To:
vision2020@moscow.com; sunilramalingam@hotmail.com<BR><BR>
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vAlign=top>Sunil,<BR><BR>Who are talking to? I didn't say this which you
are quoting. <BR><BR>Best Regards,<BR><BR>Donovan<BR><BR>--- On <B>Wed,
3/4/09, Sunil Ramalingam <I><sunilramalingam@hotmail.com></I></B>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px">From: Sunil
Ramalingam <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><BR>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Obama to Rescind Conscience Rule<BR>To: "vision 2020"
<vision2020@moscow.com><BR>Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 6:48
PM<BR><BR>
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Why don't you document where people have been forced to do what you
describe below:<BR><BR><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt" face=Arial
size=2>"If a health care provider signs up to be a pediatrician at a
children's hospital he is not immediately obligated to be the
facilities abortionist. If you visit a doctor for a flu shot he does
not have to acquiesce to your demand to have your pregnancy
terminated."</FONT><BR><BR>Sunil<BR><BR>
<HR id=EC_stopSpelling>
From: jampot@roadrunner.com<BR>To: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com;
vision2020@moscow.com; garrettmc@verizon.net<BR>Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009
18:09:15 -0800<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Obama to Rescind
Conscience Rule<BR><BR>
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<DIV>"First, health care is a right."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wrong. Access to health care is a
right.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"If you are a health care provider, in order to get your license
or certification of any kind, you are sworn to do certain things. If
you don't want to do those things, you should not sign the agreement
to get the license and/or medical certificate."</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I would be quite surprised if you could
document that statement. Please provide us with a copy of this
mythical agreement of which you speak. I suppose I could be wrong (not
bloody likely) but I'm quite sure that a person can obtain their
M.D. and never practice any kind of medicine a day in their life. Any
"agreement" is between the physician and his employer, be that the
patient or the facility he works for. If a health care provider signs
up to be a pediatrician at a children's hospital he is not immediately
obligated to be the facilities abortionist. If you visit a doctor for
a flu shot he does not have to acquiesce to your demand to have your
pregnancy terminated.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); FONT: 10pt arial; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow>Donovan
Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
rel=nofollow>vision2020@moscow.com</A> ; <A
title=garrettmc@verizon.net href="mailto:garrettmc@verizon.net"
rel=nofollow>garrettmc@verizon.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 04, 2009
5:25 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Obama
to Rescind Conscience Rule</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
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<TD vAlign=top>Garrett,<BR><BR>You make some really good
points in terms of market capitalism and how it should work,
and for the most part does work. However, there are some big
differences that must be made between market capitalism and
that of health care. <BR><BR>First, health care is a right.
And something being a right means that it must be provided, if
not by a government entity, then by a private entity under
contract with the government. <BR><BR>If you are a health care
provider, in order to get your license or certification of any
kind, you are sworn to do certain things. If you don't want to
do those things, you should not sign the agreement to get the
license and/or medical certificate. That is when the
"choice" is made.<BR><BR>The choice does not come when someone
drops in front of me and I decide I don't want to do CPR and
let my employer find another health care provider. Nope, the
choice was already made by me when I got my CNA, got my CPR
card, got my First Aid card, became med certified, I signed a
contract with my employer and the State of Idaho agreeing to
provide services in exchange for a job and my certifications
and licenses. <BR><BR>Your license is an agreement with the
state of Idaho to preform tasks expected of that license, in a
state sanctioned manner, by the patient or person in need of
your services. <BR><BR>If is a violation of that person's
rights, for me, as a CNA, to not provide care to someone
because of this reason or that. If I have a problem with
providing care, I could not agree to get my license. There are
medications I do not always agree with giving people, that I
must give. There are services I provide people, I do not think
they should get. But it is not my right to decide what they
need or get based on my social/religious/political beliefs. It
is my obligation to do what the nurse tells me to do within
the scope of my job, training, and licenses, and
certifications, that is all. If I commit a sin in the
performance of my duties of helping someone, I know a guy
named Jesus who I can talk to about forgiveness. If it is
something so grave I cannot morally justify it, I need to
change jobs. <BR><BR>I am appalled that a pharmacist has the
right to counter a doctor's order and stop care provided to a
patient based on their political/social/religious beliefs.
That should not happen. <BR><BR>The pharmacist doesn't know
everything the doctor knows. And their inaction could cost a
life, or permanent damage to someone. Same with nurse, PA,
CNA, LPN, MA, or other medical professionals. <BR><BR>There
are lots of jobs in the medical field that do not involve
birth control or abortions a person can pursue if this is a
problem for them. <BR><BR><BR><BR>Best
Regards,<BR><BR>Donovan<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>--- On <B>Wed,
3/4/09, Garrett <SPAN>Clevenger</SPAN>
<I><garrettmc@verizon.net></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px">From: Garrett
<SPAN><SPAN>Clevenger</SPAN></SPAN>
<garrettmc@verizon.net><BR>Subject: [Vision2020] Obama
to Rescind Conscience Rule<BR>To:
vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009,
11:49 AM<BR><BR><PRE>Sandra writes:<BR><BR>"in order to maintain adequate standards of care, more employees would be<BR>required at all times to pick up the slack of those refusing to do all aspects<BR>of the jobs they were hired to do."<BR><BR><BR>It makes sense that in order to serve patients with care they expect, if some<BR>care-givers refuse to help, others would need to step in. Isn't it the<BR>responsibility of the employer, though, to insure that it's employees do<BR>their job? If I'm starting to understand the conscience rule correctly,<BR>those employees would have job<BR> security even if they disobey their boss's<BR>orders. It is ironic that this essentially is government interference with a<BR>private enterprise in its ability to function as needed, considering it's<BR>the opposite of conservatives' normal stance of not regulating businesses.<BR><BR>Should a person expect to get an abortion from any health<BR> care provider, or are<BR>there select clinics where such procedures can be had? Who makes the call of<BR>whether a health care provider performs controversial procedures or not? I<BR>suppose it's the director of clinics who would decide if they perform them,<BR>not necessarily the doctors, nurses or other staff, and that some directors<BR>would choose to offer them, some would not.<BR><BR>Obviously you can't get an abortion at a dermatologist's office. Where,<BR>then, can one expect to have that done? If there are specific places, then<BR>obviously those procedures should be performed without hassle, and if<BR> staff<BR>there consciously object to helping with such a procedure, then they are not<BR>doing their job, and they should be let go. It's a private business, after<BR>all, and the free market should dictate its success in the long run.<BR><BR>But if staff in a place where its not part of their mission to perform<BR>abortions is expected to take<BR> part in one anyway but refuses and then is let go,<BR>that doesn't seem right, and they should have recourse for objecting based<BR>on moral reasons. Whether they need a conscience rule to ensure that right, I<BR>don't know.<BR><BR>Do pharmacies carry every available drug, or do they only have select drugs<BR>available? Are they obligated to sell any drug someone has a prescription for?<BR>If not, then I agree they should not be forced to carry drugs they don't<BR>want to sell. Whether they need a conscience rule to ensure that right, I<BR>don't know.<BR><BR>It does seem ridiculous that the rule applies to<BR> contraceptives.<BR><BR>The rule will only affect institutions that receive federal money. If they<BR>don't comply, the punishment is no more federal money. I suppose the<BR>thinking is that since tax-dollars are used, it could be construed that the feds<BR>endorse abortions, and hence are mandating clinics that receive fed money are<BR>required to<BR> ensure their employees do things they may not want to do, thus the<BR>conscience rule is a way to protect those employees religious rights from<BR>government intrusion.<BR><BR>The conscience rule could be a way for anti-choice foes to infiltrate clinics<BR>and stop abortions, which would make them activist health-care providers,<BR>essentially going against the duties of these providers to provide health care<BR>as needed.<BR><BR>Perhaps it would be best for employees to sign a waiver, acknowledging they<BR>understand abortions are performed at those clinics, and that they are willing<BR>to help as needed.<BR> Those that don't sign aren't hired.<BR><BR>In essence, it's possible that the conscience rule (I still haven't<BR>read it, shame on me, but at 127 pages its toooo long (another reason not to<BR>trust it!), see link below) is illegal if it essentially is a rule regarding the<BR>establishment of religion, ie, preventing businesses from firing people<BR> because<BR>of a special status given to employees who claim religious freedom. It's<BR>possibly a law establishing religion as a trump over a business's right to<BR>operate as needed, and to terminate employees who don't do their job.<BR><BR>Government does not need to pass laws to protect people's religious<BR>freedom. The Constitution already protects that, but it doesn't mean you are<BR>entitled to get paid for standing up for your religious beliefs.<BR><BR>Yes, I suppose I may be a flip-flip-flopper on this one...<BR><BR>Official<BR> text:<BR><BR>http://frwebgate4.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/PDFgate.cgi?WAISdocID=157701135748+2+2+0&WAISaction=retrieve<BR><BR>gclev<BR><BR>=======================================================<BR> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR> http://www.fsr.net <BR> <BR> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR>
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