<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">Tom,<br><br>You need to check your science book. There is a big difference between sneaking a sip of alcohol and snorting a line of cocaine. If you think we have problems with alcohol, wait until you see the effects of your avocation for legalizing crack. <br><br>Best Regards,<br><br>Donovan<br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 3/2/09, Tom Hansen <i><thansen@moscow.com></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">From: Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush<br>To: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com, "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com>, "vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com>, "Tom Hansen" <thansen@moscow.com><br>Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 5:32 AM<br><br><pre>No more than alcohol, Arnold.<br><br>If you
check out your history books, you will find that the bad guys made <br>BIG duckets ($) from the illegal transport and sale of alcohol. The 18<span>th</span> <br>Amendment (you know? That one that done did away with the Prohibition) <br>got rid of them there speak-easies and illegal taverns, thusly making it <br>legal to transport, sell, and consume alcohol. But only if you were above <br>a certain age and that the alkeehall that you done drunk was previously <br>taxed (along with a whole bunch of other rules that fit snuggly under the <br>gubmint label of "regulation").<br><br>Now, what's this about lowering the drinking age to 18? Instead of 18 <br>year-olds copping phoney IDs, you'll have 15 year-olds copping phoney IDs.<br><br>Cheers, Moscow.<br><br>Tom "who's still tryin' to pass himself off as 21" Hansen<br>Moscow, Idaho<br><br><br>> Tom,<br>> <br>> What makes you think that our government would be successful in its<br>regulat> ion
of drugs if it were to make them legal? What liability would <br>our<br>govern> ment have if it said it was OK to use cocaine, heroin, or meth? <br>How would<br>y> ou make sure its increased availability would be kept out of the hands <br>of<br>y> outh? <br>> <br>> What sort of influence do you think producers of exotic, expensive, and<br>hig> hly addictive drugs would have on our legal system, legislature, and<br>member> s of congress if they were legal? <br>> <br>> Best Regards,<br>> <br>> Donovan<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> --- On Sun, 3/1/09, Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com> wrote:<br>> From: Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com><br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush<br>> To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com>,<br>"vision 2020"<br><vision> 2020@moscow.com><br>> Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 6:17 PM<br>> <br>> Thanks for
mentioning that, Sunil.<br>> <br>> I was about to suggest that, in order to "control" the use/sale<br>of<br>> illicit <br>> drugs, there are only two options that have shown any effectiveness . . .<br>> <br>> 1) In some countries, use and/or sale of illicit drugs is punishible by <br>> death. In some countries a trial isn't even necessary. I do not, in <br>> ABSOLUTELY any fashion, support this option and do not foresee our <br>> legislature adopting it.<br>> <br>> 2) Legalize and regulate the use and/or sale of illicit drugs. <br>Although> <br>> I support this option in relation to most drugs, inacting such<br>legislation> <br>> is open for debate.<br>> <br>> Tom Hansen<br>> Moscow, Idaho<br>> <br>> > <br>> > I don't think there are any policies that would accomplish what<br>you<br>> want<br>> to> do, so I don't have any suggestions. I think that effort is a<br>>
waste <br>> of<br>> > time, energy, and money.<br>> > <br>> > I would decriminalize drugs instead and reduce the price. <br>> > <br>> > Sunil<br>> > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 17:41:33 -0800<br>> > From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush<br>> > To: vision2020@moscow.com; sunilramalingam@hotmail.com<br>> > <br>> > OK Suninstein,<br>> > <br>> > It is easy to be an critic. What policies would you create that would<br><br>be<br>> di> fferent, effective, and reduce the number of users of cocaine users<br>> fro> m less than 1% to a minuscule number of the population?<br>> > <br>> > Best Regards,<br>> > <br>> > Donovan<br>> > <br>> > --- On Sun, 3/1/09, Sunil Ramalingam<br><sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><br>> wrot> e:<br>> > From: Sunil Ramalingam
<sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><br>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush<br>> > To: "vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><br>> > Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 5:04 PM<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > Donovan,<br>> > <br>> > I disagree.<br>> > <br>> > Our drug laws stand as a monument to our official inability to<br>recognize> <br>> a<br>> > simple truth about people: That we (not all us us, but enough) like<br>to<br>> us> e substances that affect our consciousness. Some religions ban<br>this,<br>> man> y states do, but people still want to do it.<br>> > <br>> > We are spending a ridiculous amount of money fighting human nature,<br>and<br>> i> t isn't working. Because it's illegal it's more<br>expensive,<br>> and there's<br>> en> ough money in it to make people take enormous
risks.<br>> > <br>> > It's long been time to take a different approach. Our current one<br>is a<br>> fail> ure.<br>> > <br>> > Sunil<br>> > <br>> > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 16:44:15 -0800<br>> > From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush<br>> > To: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com<br>> > <br>> > Sunil,<br>> > <br>> > I agree with you that we need to help people with their problems and <br>not<br>> us> e drugs as a solution, I think you are wrong on the supply side. <br>> > <br>> > The fact that the drug dealers are having to smuggle the cocaine over<br><br>the<br>> b> oarder, is very indicative that the American people have rejected<br>this<br>> pr> oduct. We have spent billions on stopping it, and it is illegal in <br>> every<br>> > state and county in the country. That seems
like a pretty<br>overwhelming<br>> reje> ction of the drug. Less than one percent of the population uses<br>it.> <br>> > <br>> > The demand was created by "pushers" illegally as well, and<br>the<br>> illegal<br>> an> d dangerous addictiveness of the product is what also keeps the <br>> demand. We<br>> > didn't create the demand, the demand was created for us.<br>> > <br>> > Best Regards,<br>> > <br>> > Donovan<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > --- On Sun, 3/1/09, Sunil Ramalingam<br>> > <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><br>> > wrote:<br>> > From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><br>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush<br>> > To: "vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><br>> > Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 8:48 AM<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> >
Donovan,<br>> > <br>> > I think your premise is wrong. No one is forcing drugs on Americans.<br> <br>WE<br>> h> ave created the demand. It is a DEMAND problem, not a supply<br>problem.<br>> > <br>> > Sunil<br>> > <br>> > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:06:05 -0800<br>> > From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush<br>> > To: vision2020@moscow.com; sunilramalingam@hotmail.com<br>> > <br>> > Sunil,<br>> > <br>> > I took your question in a broader context.<br>> > <br>> > If the US was forcing cocaine into the a South America and creating<br>> violenc> e and death in their streets, yes, they would have the right<br>to<br>> destroy> the crops in the US, or at least try to. <br>> > <br>> > Best<br>> > Regards,<br>> > <br>> > Donovan<br>> > <br>> > ---
On Sat, 2/28/09, Sunil Ramalingam<br><sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><br>> wro> te:<br>> > From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><br>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush<br>> > To: "vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><br>> > Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 3:07 PM<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > Yes, Donovan, I missed the event when Central and South Americans<br>> attac> ked the biggest things in New York.<br>> > <br>> > 9/11, you say? My, that's one big cover-up if they were involved.<br>> > <br>> > At any rate, my question remains the same. Do our actions give our<br>> victi> ms the right to bomb us? If no, why not?<br>> > <br>> > Sunil<br>> > <br>> > Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 23:47:50 -0800<br>> > From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>> > Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush<br>> > To: vision2020@moscow.com; sunilramalingam@hotmail.com<br>> > <br>> > Sunil<br>> > <br>> > They do blow "things" up here. In fact, they took out the<br>two<br>> biggest<br>> thi> ngs in the biggest city. Perhaps you missed that<br>> > whole 9/11 thingy.<br>> > <br>> > Best Regards,<br>> > <br>> > Donovan<br>> > <br>> > --- On Fri, 2/27/09, Sunil Ramalingam<br><sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><br>> wro> te:<br>> > From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><br>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush<br>> > To: "vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><br>> > Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 6:28 PM<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > Donovan,<br>> > <br>> > Do the people we bomb have the
right to try to blow up things here? <br>If<br>> not> , why?<br>> > <br>> > Sunil<br>> > <br>> > Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:07:14 -0800<br>> > From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>> > To: vision2020@moscow.com; nickgier@roadrunner.com<br>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush<br>> > <br>> > What Nick doesn't realize is that it isn't the<br>government's <br>> responsibility<br>> > to keep people off drugs. That is the responsibility of the<br>individual.<br>> Onl> y you can decide not to use drugs and take responsibility for your<br>> behavior> and decisions to use or not use drugs, and what you put in<br>your> <br>> body.<br>> > <br>> > The government has made it clear to<br>> > anyone who will listen from 5 years old to 105 years old, DON'T<br>USE<br>> DRUG> S. That is all they can do. They provide information
to people<br>for <br>> free,<br>> > and they offer free drug counseling, and help with getting off drug<br>> addic> tion. <br>> > <br>> > I use to drink heavily, and smoke up to three packs of cigarettes a<br>> day> , and I will not talk about anything else I did because this is a <br>> public<br>> > forum. But it was me, and me alone, that had the power to decide to<br>> use> and stop using products abusive to my body. <br>> > <br>> > People think it is<br>> > the responsibility of the government to do things for you. It is<br>not. <br>If<br>> p> eople want to use drugs, they will. If they want to get off drugs,<br>> they> will.<br>> > <br>> > I as a taxpayer can only do so much, and refuse to take blame for the<br>> per> sonal decisions that people make with full knowledge of their<br>actions> <br>> and<br>> b> ehaviors. <br>> >
<br>> > The Government didn't fail with drugs, only people that decided<br>not to<br>> ge> t off drugs fail. Only people that refuse to take personal <br>> responsibility<br>> a> re the ones that fail. <br>> > <br>> > And who really gives a damn if bombing cocaine fields in South<br>America<br>> make> s other nations mad. These people are doing wrong, and the US has<br><br>> every<br>> r> ight to protect themselves from people trying to do harm to our <br>> citizens. <br>> > <br>> > Best Regards,<br>> > Donovan<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > --- On Fri, 2/27/09, nickgier@roadrunner.com<br>> <nickgier@roadrunner.com><br>> > wrote:<br>> > From: nickgier@roadrunner.com<br>> > <nickgier@roadrunner.com><br>> > Subject: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush<br>> > To: vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > Date:
Friday, February 27, 2009, 8:51 AM<br>> > <br>> > Good Morning Visionaries:<br>> > <br>> > This is my radio commentary/column for this week. I had Ted Moffett <br>and a<br>> > friend who's an expert in this area look this over before I<br>polished<br>> off<br>> th> e<br>> > rough draft. <br>> > <br>> > Ted suggested that I add the abuse of pharmaceuticals but the long <br>> version<br>> > was<br>> > already approaching 2,000 words. Besides Ted has already posted some<br><br>of<br>> > the<br>> > material here on the vision. Thanks, Ted, for your research which is<br>> th> e best on<br>> > the Vision on all the topics you cover.<br>> > <br>> > I just saw "Nixon/Frost" at the Kenworthy and I had to<br>admit<br>> that I<br>> > began to empathize with the most despised of all presidents, but <br>perhaps<br>> > that<br>> > was
because of the superb acting of Frank<br>> > Langella.<br>> > <br>> > The group Law<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > Enforcement<br>> > Against Prohibition (LEAP)has an excellent video at<br>> > <www.leap.cc/cms/index.php?name=Content&pid=28>.<br>> > <br>> > Nick Gier<br>> > <br>> > DRUG POLICY FAILURES FROM NIXON TO BUSH<br>> > <br>> > By Nick Gier<br>> > <br>> > Every one of the bastards that are out for legalizing marijuana is<br>> Jewish.> <br>> > What the Christ is the matter with the Jews, Bob?<br>> > --Richard M. Nixon to Robert Haldeman<br>> > <br>> > Nixon is the first post-war president to declare war on drugs. He<br>was<br>> > determined to enforce a policy that placed marijuana in the same <br>category<br>> a> s<br>> > heroin. In the early days of Nixon's war, a person caught with<br>any<br>>
amount> of<br>> > marijuana could be sentenced to seven years in prison.<br>> > <br>> > In 1971 Nixon appointed Pennsylvania Gov. Ray Shafer to chair the <br>> National<br>> > Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse, which unexpectedly<br>recommended<br>> th> at pot<br>> > possession be decriminalized. Always coarse and obscene, Nixon<br>lashed<br>> ou> t<br>> > at<br>> > members of the<br>> > <br>> > Commission<br>> > calling them<br>> > "bastards" and<br>> > "Jews."<br>> > <br>> > Since the day Nixon rejected the recommendations of the Shafer<br>> Commission> ,<br>> > fifteen million Americans have been arrested for marijuana charges<br>(88<br>> perc> ent<br>> > for possession only), but pot dealing and smoking continue unabated.<br>> Sinc> e 1980<br>> > the number of drug offenders incarcerated by states
increased from 6<br>> percen> t to<br>> > 21 percent and those in federal prisons went from 25 to 57 percent.<br>> Sadly> , 80<br>> > percent of all those in prison for drug offenses are either Latinos<br>or<br>> Afri> can<br>> > Americans.<br>> > <br>> > Paramilitary SWAT teams in U.S. cities have been overly aggressive <br>> against<br>> > suspected drug dealers. The libertarian CATO Institute has reported <br>that<br>> t> hese<br>> > units have entered the homes of 170 innocents and killed 43. The<br>CATO<br>> webs> ite<br>> > also lists 23 nonviolent offenders and 25 police officers killed.<br>> > <br>> > Last year the U.S. spent $69 billion interfering in the lives of<br>> > North<br>> > <br>> > and<br>> > South<br>> > Americans, supporting<br>> > military activities and crop eradication that have<br>> >
alienated millions of people south of the border. <br>> > <br>> > In 2007 one of the first acts of Mexican President Felipe Calderon<br>was <br>to<br>> u> se<br>> > the army to crack down on Mexico's three major drug cartels.<br>Calderon <br>> used<br>> > the army because local and regional police and many office holders<br>had<br>> alre> ady<br>> > been bought off by the cartels. The results of Mexico's military<br><br>> solution<br>> > to drug smuggling have been disastrous. In the past two years an <br>> estimated<br>> > 8,790 people have been killed, including 800 soldiers and police<br>> office> rs. <br>> > <br>> > Mexico is the transshipment point for 90 percent of the cocaine<br>coming <br>to<br>> t> he<br>> > U.S. The main source of this drug is Columbia, which has been the <br>focus<br>> > of U.S.<br>> > efforts of eradication and
interdiction. Since 2000 the U.S. has<br>poured> <br>> $6<br>> > billion dollars into Columbia, but cocaine production has still <br>increased<br>> > <br>> > 4<br>> > percent<br>> > during that<br>> > time. <br>> > <br>> > Large<br>> > acreages of coca have been destroyed; the big cartels have been<br>broken<br>> > up; left-wing guerrillas are in retreat; and the streets of Bogata<br>are<br>> > safer. <br>> > But the coca farmers have simply switched to smaller plots closer to <br>the<br>> ju> ngle<br>> > and right-wing paramilitary units are still involved in cocaine <br>> production<br>> > and<br>> > smuggling. <br>> > <br>> > Nixon's war on drugs have turned entire nations against us. Evo<br>> Morales,> a<br>> > former coca grower, is now Bolivia's president. At recent speech<br>at<br>> the<br>> >
UN,<br>> > Morales held up a coca leaf and spoke about a World Health<br>Organization<br>> (WH> O)<br>> > study that concluded that the ingestion of coca was not harmful and<br>that> <br>> it<br>> > might even have some beneficial effects. When I was in Peru in 2002,<br><br>my<br>> > guide<br>> > distributed coca leaves to our group as a remedy for altitude<br>sickness.> <br>> > <br>> > In 1989 I chaired the Borah Symposium on the topic "Cocaine and<br>> > Conflict" and our<br>> > <br>> > keynote speaker was Ethan<br>> > <br>> > Nadelman. Now the head of<br>> > the<br>> > Drug Policy Institute, he is a leading spokesman for drug<br>> legalization,> which<br>> > means legal regulation, not total free use (except of marijuana) of <br>hard<br>> > drugs. <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > Proponents of legal regulation contend
that removing the illegal<br>trade <br>> and<br>> > criminal gangs will have the same positive effect as the ending of<br>> Prohibit> ion<br>> > in 1933. A $250-350 billion business would become a source for much<br>> needed> tax<br>> > revenue that can be used to rebuild communities and rehabilitate<br>those<br>> rela> tive<br>> > few who have been addicted to drugs. <br>> > <br>> > A 2007 Zogby Poll asked the following question of 1028 people:<br>"If<br>> hard<br>> > drugs such as heroin or cocaine were legalized, would you be likely<br>to<br>> us> e<br>> > them." Only 6 answered in the affirmative. <br>> > There are over 250 shops in the Netherlands where one can buy<br>marijuana<br>> > legally, but only 16 percent of the adult population has even tried<br>> > <br>> > cannibals,<br>> > while 33 percent of<br>> > Americans<br>>
> have. One commentator<br>> > quipped that the Dutch have<br>> > made smoking pot "uncool." <br>> > <br>> > Reading the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) website, one would<br>> thin> k that<br>> > liberalizing drug laws in Europe has been a complete failure. In <br>England<br>> do> ctors<br>> > used to prescribe heroin to addicts under controlled conditions and <br>their<br>> > numbers stabilized at 2,000, but since that program was abolished in<br>> 19> 70 the<br>> > number has risen to 300,000. Similar programs in Germany, Spain,<br>> Swi> tzerland,<br>> > and the Netherlands have proved effective.<br>> > <br>> > One of the most effective organizations for legal regulation of drugs<br><br>is<br>> La> w<br>> > Enforcement against Prohibition (LEAP). Since its founding in 2002,<br>> LEAP'> s<br>> > membership, former police
officers, DEA agents, and city<br>> officials,> has grown to<br>> > 5,000. These men and women have seen first hand how Nixon's war<br>on<br>> drugs<br>> > has devastated their communities and made<br>> > <br>> > criminals out of ordinary citizens. <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > As long as the<br>> > U.S. has the<br>> > highest drug use rate in the industrialized world,<br>> > this demand will drive the criminal drug trade and will continue to<br>> destabi> lize<br>> > all the countries south of the border. We should immediately<br>un-declare<br>> the> wars<br>> > on drugs and terror. Police surveillance and investigation should <br>> replace<br>> > paramilitary over-kill. We should decriminalize the use of marijuana<br>and> <br>> we<br>> > should try the policy of legal regulation of all other drugs and see<br>if> <br>> it<br>>
> works.<br>> > <br>> ><br>========================> =><br>=======================> ==> =====<br>> > List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> > http://www.fsr.net <br>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> ><br>========================> =><br>=======================> ==> =====<br>> > <br>> > <br>> ><br>========================> =><br>=======================> ==> =====<br>> > List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> > http://www.fsr.net <br>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> ><br>========================> =><br>=======================> ==> =====<br>> >
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><br>========================> =><br>=======================> ==> =====<br>> > List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> > http://www.fsr.net <br>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> ><br>========================> =><br>=======================> ==> =====<br>> > <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> "For a lapsed Lutheran born-again Buddhist pan-Humanist Universalist <br>> Unitarian Wiccan Agnostic like myself there's really no reason ever to<br>go> <br>> to work."<br>> <br>> - Roy Zimmerman<br>> <br>> <br>> ---------------------------------------------<br>> This message was sent by First Step Internet.<br>> http://www.fsr.com/<br>> <br>> <br>> =========================> =========================> =====<br>>
List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> http://www.fsr.net <br>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> =========================> =========================> =====<br>> <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>"For a lapsed Lutheran born-again Buddhist pan-Humanist Universalist <br>Unitarian Wiccan Agnostic like myself there's really no reason ever to go <br>to work."<br><br>- Roy Zimmerman<br><br><br>---------------------------------------------<br>This message was sent by First Step Internet.<br> http://www.fsr.com/<br><br><br></pre><pre>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br> http://www.fsr.net <br>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>=======================================================</pre></blockquote></td></tr></table><br>