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This is irony, right?<br><br>Sunil<br><br><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:53:19 -0800<br>From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Humane interrogations work<br>To: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com<br>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<br><br><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; -x-system-font: none;" valign="top">Sunil,<br><br>I don't think it really matters what Iraqis want if it is against US or world interests, why should we do what they want?<br><br>I don't think Iraq is better off left to their own devices. Do you? They create too many wars, gas innocent people, try to take over neighboring countries, slaughter ethnic minorities, steal oil, abuse and exploit their woman, publicly execute gays and other sexual minorities, and it launches missiles at Israel. <br><br>I would say those were all good reasons to keep an eye on them and curb their behaviors.<br><br>Best Regards,<br><br>Donovan<br><br>--- On <b>Thu, 2/26/09, Sunil Ramalingam <i><sunilramalingam@hotmail.com></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">From: <span>Sunil</span> Ramalingam
<sunilramalingam@hotmail.com><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Humane interrogations work<br>To: <br>Cc: "vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><br>Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 11:12 AM<br><br><div id="EC_yiv543777488">
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What if Iraqis don't want our 'help' any more? What if they don't want us there at all?<br><br>Do we keep helping ourselves?<br><br>Sunil<br><br><hr id="EC_stopSpelling">From: jampot@roadrunner.com<br>To: garrettmc@verizon.net; chasuk@gmail.com<br>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 10:22:16 -0800<br>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Humane interrogations work<br><br>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Complete extermination of the enemy WOULD be my
first choice but I do realize the difficulty that entails.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">My alternate, more realistic, solution, such as it
is, would be for us to be vigilant, root out leaders, bases, and training
areas as best we can and destroy them. Identify funding sources and
communication pathways and choke them off. Help Iraq become a 21st century
republic. Try and help Afghanistan into becoming at least a peaceful 19th
century functioning oligarchy. Do our best to encourage more peaceful/less
radical Muslim nations to do more to help and pray God for improvement over
time. I really don't foresee the problem going away entirely but I do believe
that we can make the job description of radical islamic terrorist more dangerous
and unappealing than other more productive pursuits.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Now, how about you? Let's hear a few specifics of
your plan that aren't your generic Rodney King plaintive plea for peace. Should
we apologize for putting the world trade towers, the USS Cole, and misc.
embassies in the path of terrorist attack and offer to pay billions in
reparations/ransom? (I doubt it would help, who do we pay off ?) Should we
abandon Israel? (I doubt it would make any difference, Israelis have a silly
notion that they have a right to live) Abandon our interests in the region? (I
doubt it would help as without western help most of these nations economies
would grind to a halt) Not allow US culture to seep into the region? (I doubt it
would help, the genii is already out of that bottle)</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Now, lets hear your specific solution.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">g</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">----- Original Message ----- </font>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">From: "Garrett Clevenger" <</font><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:garrettmc@verizon.net"><font size="2" face="Arial">garrettmc@verizon.net</font></a><font size="2" face="Arial">></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">To: "Chasuk" <</font><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:chasuk@gmail.com"><font size="2" face="Arial">chasuk@gmail.com</font></a><font size="2" face="Arial">>; "g. crabtree"
<</font><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><font size="2" face="Arial">jampot@roadrunner.com</font></a><font size="2" face="Arial">></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Cc: "vision 2020" <</font><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><font size="2" face="Arial">vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><font size="2" face="Arial">></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:52
AM</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Humane interrogations
work</font></div></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><br><font size="2"></font></font></div><font size="2" face="Arial">> What's your answer, g, to how we are going to win this war? Is it
complete extermination of the enemy? Do you really foresee this ending? Or is
the final solution when all of us are dead, ala mutual assured
destruction?<br>> <br>> <br>> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, g. crabtree
<</font><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><font size="2" face="Arial">jampot@roadrunner.com</font></a><font size="2" face="Arial">>
wrote:<br>> <br>>> From: g. crabtree <</font><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><font size="2" face="Arial">jampot@roadrunner.com</font></a><font size="2" face="Arial">><br>>>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Humane interrogations work<br>>> To: "Chasuk"
<</font><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:chasuk@gmail.com"><font size="2" face="Arial">chasuk@gmail.com</font></a><font size="2" face="Arial">>, </font><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:garrettmc@verizon.net"><font size="2" face="Arial">garrettmc@verizon.net</font></a><br><font size="2" face="Arial">>> Cc:
"vision 2020" <</font><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><font size="2" face="Arial">vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><font size="2" face="Arial">><br>>>
Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 7:44 AM<br>>> "So, instead of
continuing to manufacture martyrs and<br>>> terrorists, I<br>>>
suggest that we master the techniques of apology and<br>>>
submission,<br>>> otherwise known as compromise, dialogue, and honest,
mutual<br>>> sacrifice."<br>>> <br>>> While I am extremely
sceptical that martyrs and terrorists<br>>> are, in any meaningful way,
manufactured by us except for in<br>>> as much as we exist, why don't you
run down the<br>>> solutions for me.<br>>> <br>>> Apology is
easy. Obama has proven that he can tell any bald<br>>> faced lie and sell
it like a Fuller brush man. An insincere<br>>> I'm sorry should be no
trouble at all.<br>>> <br>>> Submission is where it becomes a little
more interesting.<br>>> What compromise should we be willing to make? How
about no<br>>> US presence in the middle east? Abandon our
legitimate<br>>> interests to our great detriment and bolt. How
about<br>>> allowing sharia to become the law of the land? Perhaps
get<br>>> our women back under control and under the veil? I'm<br>>>
thinking there could be a few problems with these<br>>>
"compromises."<br>>> <br>>> Dialogue. Now that should be easy but,
with who? Osama<br>>> perhaps? How about Maulana Masood Azhar,
Mahmoud<br>>> Ahmadinejad, Omar Abdel-Rahman, or Dr. Walid Ahmad
Fitaihi.<br>>> Which one of these nut jobs has the required suck to
make<br>>> any dialog meaningful?<br>>> <br>>> And lastly the
"honest mutual sacrifice." Would<br>>> that be something like we throw
Israel to the jackals and in<br>>> return they stop cutting the heads off
of innocent business<br>>> men and journalists? How about we stop allowing
our culture<br>>> to spread to the rest of the world and they quit
using<br>>> retarded children, women, and cripples to blow up ice
cream<br>>> parlors?<br>>> <br>>> So, what were you thinking
would be the appropriate<br>>> compromises and sacrifices we should make
to put an end to<br>>> radical islamic extortion?<br>>> <br>>>
g<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> ----- Original Message ----- From:
"Chasuk"<br>>> <</font><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:chasuk@gmail.com"><font size="2" face="Arial">chasuk@gmail.com</font></a><font size="2" face="Arial">><br>>> To: <</font><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:garrettmc@verizon.net"><font size="2" face="Arial">garrettmc@verizon.net</font></a><font size="2" face="Arial">><br>>>
Cc: "g. crabtree" <</font><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><font size="2" face="Arial">jampot@roadrunner.com</font></a><font size="2" face="Arial">>;<br>>> "vision 2020" <</font><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><font size="2" face="Arial">vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><font size="2" face="Arial">><br>>>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 12:56 AM<br>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
Humane interrogations work<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> > On Mon,
Feb 23, 2009 at 23:35, Garrett Clevenger<br>>> <</font><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:garrettmc@verizon.net"><font size="2" face="Arial">garrettmc@verizon.net</font></a><font size="2" face="Arial">>
wrote:<br>>> > <br>>> >> [Gary] end(s) writing, "I,
Personally, refuse<br>>> to apologize and I'm not to wild about
submission,<br>>> conversion is out of the question, and when it comes
to<br>>> death I figure better them then me. Call me crazy."<br>>>
> <br>>> >> That's not crazy, as we all feel it.<br>>>
That's what's driving the whole insanity, though,<br>>> and all the bombs
and blood spilt's not going to change<br>>> it. Which leads me to conclude
we're creating our own<br>>> hell, which is quite ironic.<br>>> >
<br>>> > I have agreed with most of what you have written,<br>>>
Garrett, but I<br>>> > disagree here. I, for one, don't
"feel<br>>> it."<br>>> > <br>>> > I sometimes apologize
even when it isn't entirely<br>>> heartfelt. Usually,<br>>>
> my apology is reciprocated, and we both end up feeling<br>>> better,
and<br>>> > more amenable to compromise and dialogue.
Obviously,<br>>> apology is not<br>>> > always a solution, but
there is nothing intrinsically<br>>> evil or cowardly<br>>> >
about it.<br>>> > <br>>> > Submission is something that we all
do every day of<br>>> our lives, whether<br>>> > we are children
or adults. We do if we want our<br>>> relationships to
be<br>>> > successful, that is. Husbands submit to their
wives,<br>>> and wives to<br>>> > their husbands. It isn't
a sign of weakness, it<br>>> is acknowledging that<br>>> > we
each have a right to boundaries that must be<br>>> respected.
Groveling<br>>> > isn't necessary. When we submit to
each<br>>> other's boundaries, we<br>>> > demonstrate that that
the relationship is important<br>>> enough to us that<br>>> > we
are willing to make sacrifices to make it work.<br>>> > <br>>>
> Islam has historically been very tolerant of other<br>>>
faiths. Conversion<br>>> > usually isn't expected or
required. Yes, we are<br>>> talking about<br>>> >
extremists, but it is our annihilation that is their<br>>> goal, rather
than<br>>> > our conversion, which brings us to the final
point...<br>>> > <br>>> > Death isn't scary to a martyr,
especially if their<br>>> martyrdom results<br>>> > in the
simultaneous death of infidels, preferably many<br>>> at the
same<br>>> > time. Martyrs are like roosters in the hen
house. It<br>>> only takes one<br>>> > to fertilize an
awful lot of chickens, and one martyr<br>>> to kill an awful<br>>>
> lot of us.<br>>> > <br>>> > Martyrs are far more
tenacious than roosters, so<br>>> exterminating them<br>>> > all
is unlikely, unless we make it US policy to engage<br>>> in holy war
and<br>>> > genocide. Personally, I'm voting against a
US<br>>> jihad.<br>>> > <br>>> > So, instead of
continuing to manufacture martyrs and<br>>> terrorists, I<br>>> >
suggest that we master the techniques of apology and<br>>>
submission,<br>>> > otherwise known as compromise, dialogue, and
honest,<br>>> mutual sacrifice.<br>>> > <br>>> >
Chas<br>>> ><br>></font>
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