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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ah, <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><FONT
face=Arial size=2>Every day is Ashura, every land is Karbala,
eh?</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm glad we have managed to find common ground. It
is silly to be concerned about creating martyrs as muslim extremists
need no provocation or justification for their bloody sensless acts and
while killing them doesn't do as much to reduce their ranks as quickly as
I would prefer, it does put an end to the individual bad attitude and is
far preferable to leaving them loose to kill again.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As has been mentioned on a parallel thread, killing
cockroaches hasn't put an end to that problem either but no one is suggesting
that we quit. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Instead of taking exception to my solution to the
problem and insisting that I "think of something better," why don't you
enlighten me with your solution. Surrender, capitulation, and acquiescence
perhaps?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=nielsen@uidaho.edu href="mailto:nielsen@uidaho.edu">Ralph Nielsen</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jampot@roadrunner.com
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g. crabtree</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=Vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 20, 2009 2:17
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Spam 6.72] Re: [Vision2020]
Humane interrogations work</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Sorry, Gary, creating martyrs doesn't work. Many years ago the Christian
church declared, "The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the
Church." </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Some years later, in 680 C.E., Husayn ibn Ali, the grandson of the
Prophet, and a small group of family members and followers were defeated and
beheaded by a much larger army. Ever since then their martyrdom has been
commemorated by millions of Muslims. Before he was slain, the martyr Husayn
declared, "<SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">The believer
should desire to meet his Lord while he is right. Thus I do not see death but
as happiness, and living with tyrants but as sorrow."<SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"> </SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Gary, you've got to think of something better than just killing
people.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ralph</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV> g. crabtree wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">I don't know about Roger but I'm A-OK with dead
terrorists. It certainly is a deterrent for the individual terrorist in
question and as to their becoming one more martyr, who cares? It's not as
though the lack would result in any reduction in anti American/western
violence. After all, Who was Bin Laden avenging? What about Mohamed Atta,
Marwan Al-Shehhi, Fayez Ahmed, Mohald Alshehri, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed
Alghamdi, Waleed M Alshehri, Wail Alshehri, Abdulaziz Alomari, Satam Al
Suqami, Khalid Al-Midhar, Majed Moqed, Nawaq Alhamzi, Salem Alhamzi, Hani
Hanjour, Ahmed Alhaznawi, Ahmed Alnami, Ziad Jarrahi and Saeed Alghamdi?
There is no question but what were we to cease bringing terrorists down to
room temperature the violence would still go on and on and on.</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">g</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Roger,</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Maybe you don't like torturing people. But why do
you deliberately</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">want to kill people? They don't do things like
that in civilized</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">countries. It doesn't work as a deterrent and, as
I have already</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">pointed out, it only makes martyrs out of them. I
repeat: Whose side</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">are you on?</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Ralph</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Ralph</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">That ia a ludicrous statement. If you have read
my posts it should</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">be clear that I do not like torture. Whether he
thinks he would be</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">a martyr or not is irrelevant. To my mind he
would not be a martyr,</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">just a fanatic who got what was coming to
him.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Roger</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Nick</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">[snip]</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Khalid Scheiikh Mohammed is a fanatic and it
is doubtful you could</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">appeal to his good side. He wants to executed
so he can be a martyr.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">I would grant his wish. It is to be expected
that you will get a lot</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">of misinformation and this should be taked
into account.</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Roger</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Roger, I get the impression that you really
enjoy torturing and</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">killing people. Why should we make a martyr
out of anyone, least of</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">all of a fanatic? Whose side are you
on?</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Ralph</DIV>
<DIV
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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