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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I was refering to the battlefield. To the best of
my knowlege we have not executed a single captured terrorist, in fact quite the
opposite, most have been treated far better by us then they would have had they
been returned to their native lands. I could have sworn that
"imprisionment" is what we had going at guantanamo and I would have been content
to let the vermin rot there but, apparently, that doesn't suit the current
mood. (although lip service is all that I've seen with regard to a
change)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Just to be clear though, I would have no problem
with executing any terrorist who can be proven guilty of murdering an American
or ally and firmly believe that it is a better alternative to imprisionment.
After all, these are not soldiers or prisioners of war, they are
criminals.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jeanlivingston@turbonet.com
href="mailto:jeanlivingston@turbonet.com">Bruce and Jean Livingston</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=lockguys@turbonet.com
href="mailto:lockguys@turbonet.com">the lockshop</A> ; <A
title=nielsen@uidaho.edu href="mailto:nielsen@uidaho.edu">Ralph Nielsen</A> ;
<A title=jampot@roadrunner.com href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g.
crabtree</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=Vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 20, 2009 3:32
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] [Spam 6.72] Re:
Humane interrogations work</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Alternatives to execution are "surrender, capitulation
and acquiescence"? Ludicrous!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Imprisonment is an easy alternative that
punishes, deters and protects society.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Bruce Livingston</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=lockguys@turbonet.com href="mailto:lockguys@turbonet.com">the
lockshop</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nielsen@uidaho.edu
href="mailto:nielsen@uidaho.edu">Ralph Nielsen</A> ; <A
title=jampot@roadrunner.com href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g.
crabtree</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=Vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 20, 2009 3:24
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] [Spam 6.72]
Re: Humane interrogations work</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ah, <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><FONT
face=Arial size=2>Every day is Ashura, every land is Karbala,
eh?</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm glad we have managed to find common ground.
It is silly to be concerned about creating martyrs as muslim
extremists need no provocation or justification for their bloody
sensless acts and while killing them doesn't do as much to reduce their
ranks as quickly as I would prefer, it does put an end to the
individual bad attitude and is far preferable to leaving them loose to
kill again.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As has been mentioned on a parallel thread,
killing cockroaches hasn't put an end to that problem either but no one is
suggesting that we quit. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Instead of taking exception to my solution to
the problem and insisting that I "think of something better," why don't you
enlighten me with your solution. Surrender, capitulation, and
acquiescence perhaps?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=nielsen@uidaho.edu href="mailto:nielsen@uidaho.edu">Ralph
Nielsen</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jampot@roadrunner.com
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g. crabtree</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=Vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 20, 2009 2:17
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Spam 6.72] Re: [Vision2020]
Humane interrogations work</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Sorry, Gary, creating martyrs doesn't work. Many years ago the
Christian church declared, "The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the
Church." </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Some years later, in 680 C.E., Husayn ibn Ali, the grandson of
the Prophet, and a small group of family members and followers were
defeated and beheaded by a much larger army. Ever since then their
martyrdom has been commemorated by millions of Muslims. Before he was
slain, the martyr Husayn declared, "<SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">The believer should desire to meet his Lord while
he is right. Thus I do not see death but as happiness, and living with
tyrants but as sorrow."<SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"> </SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Gary, you've got to think of something better than just killing
people.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ralph</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV> g. crabtree wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">I don't know about Roger but I'm A-OK with dead
terrorists. It certainly is a deterrent for the individual terrorist in
question and as to their becoming one more martyr, who cares? It's not
as though the lack would result in any reduction in anti
American/western violence. After all, Who was Bin Laden avenging? What
about Mohamed Atta, Marwan Al-Shehhi, Fayez Ahmed, Mohald Alshehri,
Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi, Waleed M Alshehri, Wail Alshehri,
Abdulaziz Alomari, Satam Al Suqami, Khalid Al-Midhar, Majed Moqed, Nawaq
Alhamzi, Salem Alhamzi, Hani Hanjour, Ahmed Alhaznawi, Ahmed Alnami,
Ziad Jarrahi and Saeed Alghamdi? There is no question but what were we
to cease bringing terrorists down to room temperature the violence would
still go on and on and on.</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">g</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Roger,</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Maybe you don't like torturing people. But
why do you deliberately</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">want to kill people? They don't do things
like that in civilized</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">countries. It doesn't work as a deterrent
and, as I have already</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">pointed out, it only makes martyrs out of
them. I repeat: Whose side</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">are you on?</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Ralph</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Ralph</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">That ia a ludicrous statement. If you have
read my posts it should</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">be clear that I do not like torture.
Whether he thinks he would be</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">a martyr or not is irrelevant. To my mind
he would not be a martyr,</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">just a fanatic who got what was coming to
him.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Roger</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Nick</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">[snip]</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Khalid Scheiikh Mohammed is a fanatic and
it is doubtful you could</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">appeal to his good side. He wants to
executed so he can be a martyr.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">I would grant his wish. It is to be
expected that you will get a lot</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">of misinformation and this should be
taked into account.</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Roger</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Roger, I get the impression that you
really enjoy torturing and</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">killing people. Why should we make a
martyr out of anyone, least of</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">all of a fanatic? Whose side are you
on?</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Ralph</DIV>
<DIV
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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