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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> ; <A
title=kmmos1@verizon.net href="mailto:kmmos1@verizon.net">Kenneth Marcy</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:27
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Presidential
Rankings (2009)</DIV>
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<TD vAlign=top>People that were against the dropping of the atom bombs
on Japan in WWII were obviously ignorant of the larger number of
causalities it would have cost both Japan and the US in its place, and
were insensitive to massive suffering and loss of life that the US and
others had already endured. <BR><BR>Truman only had two options. 1) To
kill one million more people, both Japanese and Americans, or 2) Kill
100,000 Japanese that started the war and end it. <BR><BR>To me, the
choice is obvious. I am sure Truman would have dropped 12 billion roses
instead if it ended the war, but it wouldn't, so he did what had to do
to end the war. And dropping the bomb barely did end the war as Japan
still didn't want to surrender initially after that. <BR><BR>Best
Regards.<BR><BR>Donovan<BR><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 2/19/09, Kenneth Marcy
<I><kmmos1@verizon.net></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From:
Kenneth Marcy <kmmos1@verizon.net><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
Presidential Rankings (2009)<BR>To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Date:
Thursday, February 19, 2009, 12:45 PM<BR><BR><PRE>On Wednesday 18 February 2009 14:03:26 Kai Eiselein wrote:<BR>> Sooooo, would this apply to those who condemn the use of nuclear bombs on<BR>> Japan?<BR><BR>Yes. I think that the Allies, and the Americans specifically, were war-weary <BR>from large social and industrial reorganizations to support a war effort then <BR>beyond all those previous. The prospect of any necessity of taking a land war <BR>from the Allies into Asia implied such huge additional losses that any way to <BR>end the Nipponese war, and prevent its spread more generally to Asia, was <BR>seen as a useful effort.<BR><BR>More so than any subsequent major conflict, World War II was seen
as a just <BR>war; the Allied cause was worth winning for good reasons, and all efforts <BR>toward that end were justified.<BR><BR>Yes, the atomic destruction was horrific, no doubt about it, and on sight of <BR>the test blast, the decision makers all knew it. Oppenheimer said in New <BR>Mexico "I am become death." And the chain of command, from Groves up<BR>to <BR>Marshall and then to Truman, presumably had some idea of the much larger <BR>magnitude of the atom bombs, so the decision to use them was in service of <BR>ending the Nipponese war sooner rather than later.<BR><BR>> Or the fire bombing of Germany?<BR><BR>Without reviewing the technical details, I will just say that after the U.S. <BR>joined the Allied cause then underway, there was a strong determination to <BR>see the war effort through to a victorious decision. No one doubted the <BR>justness of the Allied cause, nor did anyone doubt that the awful destruction <BR>was beneath the
dignified preferences of civil societies. However, the Axis <BR>aggression had to be stopped, and the prosecution of the European efforts <BR>continued until that goal was reached. Whether the goal could have been <BR>achieved more optimally with less destruction was a judgment call; second <BR>guessing and arm-chair quarterbacking more than half a century later won't <BR>change their determination then to get the job done with what was available.<BR><BR>> Or, the actions Europeans took in the Americas after stumbling upon the<BR>> <SPAN>contintents</SPAN>?<BR><BR>Considering that Europeans first began attempting permanent North American <BR>settlements centuries ago, it is even more important for us not to impose our <BR>mind-set on their attitudes and motivations. Some of the earliest were <BR>explorers, somewhat later they were escaping religious differences. Yes, they <BR>had racist attitudes. Yes, they felt their technologies and their
old-world <BR>civilization gave them a sense of entitlement to what they saw before them. <BR>There was no North American parliament with proportional representation of <BR>the indigenous peoples, and if anyone had been so foolish as to suggest one, <BR>they would have been laughed, or worse, out of the colony.<BR><BR>>From our contemporary understandings we can easily and glibly say that the <BR>Europeans should have accepted the natives as human equals. But not all of <BR>them were willing to accept the "savages" as fully human. They did<BR>not have <BR>the advantage of knowing about Darwinian science, Mendelian genetics, and <BR>contemporary molecular biology that illustrates our closer human kinship than <BR>their observations of skin color, physiognomy, and social culture allowed. <BR>Even today not all of us have learned these lessons sufficiently well, so who <BR>are we to suggest that those early colonists were incompletely
informed?<BR><BR>> After all, there are those who do the same in those instances.<BR>> My comment wasn't so much anti-war as it was historical fact. For some<BR>> reason Vietnam and Kennedy are kept conspicuously separated in history<BR>> textbooks, even though Kennedy's actions led the U.S. directly into<BR>the<BR>> Vietnam war.<BR><BR>Yes, it is true that many Americans are a soft-hearted bunch, preferring <BR>polite conversation and gentle reminiscences of how nice the Kennedy family <BR>looked, how cute and adorable the children were, and on and on. Oh my, <BR>wouldn't it be fun to sail with Jack and the boys, or ride English <BR>side-saddle with Jackie and the ladies? How wonderful we could feel about <BR>ourselves, fantasizing ourselves into a far-away Camelot!<BR><BR>As the older generations fade into memory, younger generations of historians <BR>will probably have sharper things to say about how close we came to a Soviet
<BR>American war near Cuba, and how lucky we were for back-channel communication <BR>between the nonagenarian English Lord Russell and Nikita Khrushchev, and some <BR>other fortunate military command communications incidents that forestalled <BR>active engagement.<BR><BR>> On another note, it was Kennedy who signed legislation allowing U.S.<BR>> companies to set up shop in foriegn countries without having to pay U.S.<BR>> income taxes on their profits from those units. The idea was that by<BR>> bringing jobs into countries that were at risk of falling to the commies,<BR>> it would make communism less appealing. It was a logical move.<BR><BR>There probably were multiple reasons for allowing tax-free foreign commerce by <BR>American organizations. Profits likely were a part of it, as was the <BR>opportunity to extend the de facto American intelligence network abroad, but <BR>outside of the usual military and diplomatic channels. And I would
not be <BR>surprised to learn that the administration found it convenient to allow <BR>certain organizations to operate profitably without any necessity for their <BR>books to be examined by anyone in an official sphere. The darker corners of <BR>commercial activity can benefit more than just capitalists, as many have <BR>noted since then.<BR><BR>> Unfortunately, an unintended consequence has been the wholesale migration<BR>> of U.S. companies abroad.<BR><BR>Companies have been operating for profit internationally since ancient trading <BR>times, so international business is nothing new. Consequences, unintended or <BR>not, can be changed if the courage and collective will are marshalled to <BR>change laws and behaviors to more desirable patterns. This is a question of <BR>needed leadership, not of the horses irrevocably having escaped the barn.<BR><BR>> How much howling from big biz do you think there would be if the law was<BR>> repealed
and they had to pay taxes on their foreign income?<BR><BR>How much howling is there over any contentious tax issue? Capital gains, for <BR>example? Too often, the lobbyists and the committee chairmen decide their <BR>answer, and that's that. Powerless citizens may howl all they wish, to <BR>little avail. Powerful interests need not howl at all; they pay their agents <BR>and their will is carried out via gallons of ink printed on paper mountains.<BR><BR>Fundamental tax reform, as opposed to rearrangement of regulations, is <BR>relatively rare in the United States. For example, the US does not have a <BR>national property tax on large holdings of private property, specifically <BR>land. Why do not corporations and individuals who own millions of acres of <BR>land pay no federal property taxes on those large holdings? Exemptions for a <BR>few thousand acres of actively farmed, or recently fallowed, land could <BR>easily be arranged, so working farm
families would be exempted. So, for the <BR>remaining land hoarders, why should they not pay some small rate of property <BR>tax to help offset the government expenses of their national defense and <BR>liberties preservation? Jefferson bought the Louisiana Purchase from the <BR>French to enlarge the United States. Don't we all have an obligation to <BR>periodically re-examine who owns what land, and to re-evaluate how to keep <BR>that land optimally productive, financially and environmentally?<BR><BR><BR>Ken<BR><BR>=======================================================<BR> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR> http://www.fsr.net <BR> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
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