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<DIV><SPAN class=343532709-17012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Donovan,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=343532709-17012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I'm
glad to see someone bring up the topic of housing again. I've been away
from it for a while, but I have not forgotten it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=343532709-17012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=343532709-17012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Comments on your suggestions are:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=343532709-17012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>#1 I
can see keeping some Federal monies away but maybe still using energy and
resource conservation funds.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=343532709-17012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>#2
Personally, I'd like to see no non-tax paying entities (everyone equitably
paying taxes) in Moscow - it would help spread the burden.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=343532709-17012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>#3 I
think money needs to be made by the private funders and community-profit by the
City funds. I don't see how not-for-profit would work, but I think many
new successful project models will be joint ventures of for-profit and
not-for-profit organizations.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=343532709-17012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=343532709-17012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>What
additional detail can you provide me on what you envision.? Anyone else
have ideas?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=343532709-17012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=343532709-17012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Mark</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><IMG height=67 src="outbind://50/3di_files/image002.jpg"
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<P class=MsoNormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Agency FB'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">mark.r.seman.architect<o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
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i v e s<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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d i n t e l l i g e n c e . c o m</SPAN><SPAN
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>Donovan Arnold<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 16, 2009 11:54
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Vision2020; Darrell Keim<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020]
Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I ProgramCuts)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Darrell,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks for the
thoughtful post. Sorry, I didn't see it in the sea of others on this
list. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">First, thank you
for your serve to the community as the Director of the Chamber of
Commerce. Both my Grandfather and Uncle have held that position.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have suggested
numerous times how to change the economic and housing, and entertainment
culture of <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Moscow</st1:place></st1:City>. But that doesn't change it.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I
have worked and gotten the US Government involved in improving the
living conditions of UI Family Housing. I have gotten the UI to
comply with <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">ADA</st1:place></st1:City> regulations, and changed parking
regulations at UI so students are safer at night and can park closer to
their evening classes. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have worked on
campaigns both state and local, to get people to make the changes
needed. But the thing is, after they get into office, they lose interest
in the things we need, and focus on the things they want, which are not
the same. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#800080>The way to create low income housing is to build it with
city and private funding and without federal dollars. That way you can
make the rules for it without the required restrictive federal
regulations which prevent most poor people in <st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Moscow</st1:place></st1:City> from
qualifying for it. Second, don't lay any property taxes on it. Third,
you make it not-for-profit. Nobody in the city is interested in doing
this. The current projects which they are reviewing, won’t work. They
have the same problems with them.</FONT> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The second thing
to do for entertainment of students is to make a list of the things that
students want, with different areas of interest as possible. People seem
to make lists and they obviously get the same answers, like basketball,
baseball, and swimming pools, and the like. We need to introduce a
VARIETY of activities that appeal to all tastes and interests.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The third thing
we need is more businesses and industry in the area. <st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Moscow</st1:place></st1:City> seems to
dislike and knock down all efforts for new industries and construction
unless it is 100% clean and green. While I think we need to be thinking
about the environment, we cannot be so paranoid about it that we don't
use our resources to our benefit and the prosperity and well being
of the community. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This is not the
first time I have suggested these ideas and presented them to people. If
people don't care to improve our community, and are happy with it
failing exactly the way it is, then that is fine. But I think it is
important to improve and change <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Moscow</st1:place></st1:City> or it will eventually go the way
of the dinosaur. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Best
Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Donovan<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 1/15/09, Darrell Keim
<I><keim153@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From:
Darrel<SPAN><SPAN>l </SPAN>Ke</SPAN>im
<keim153@gmail.com><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly
Activities (was U of I Program Cuts)<BR>To:
donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com, "Vision2020"
<vision2020@moscow.com><BR>Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009,
6:52 PM<BR><BR><PRE>You are correct, Donovan, I am "dogging on you."
I'll tell you why.
It is because I think you can do better than the negative, bitter
persona you project on Vision 2020.
You say you don't carry that negativity in your home, work or person.
I sincerely hope you are correct. As a long time reader of Vision
2020 I see someone that is happy to bring up the faults of our area.
But, I rarely see you proposing solutions. Nor, to my knowledge, have
I seen you make any efforts in real life to effect positive change in
our community (Again, maybe I'm wrong). I'm told you were very active
as a student, but what have you done since then? It is all well and
good to say "we need better jobs"or "lower cost housing,"
etc. But,
aside from posting here, what are you doing to effect the change you
believe we need? There are numerous city and county councils working
on just the two issues I mention above. These commissions are always
looking for smart, hard working people that are dedicated to Moscow.
People like you.
You posted here 79 times in December. What positive things could you
have done for our community in that time?
I have a few more comments interspersed in the quote below:
2009/1/15 Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>:
> Lets see here Darell,
>
> You attack me, and call me negative.
>
> I suggest positive changes we should make to Moscow to keep families and
> students happy, that they have suggested to me, and you dog on me.
I haven't noticed you posting positive changes. I've read you
pointing out negatives, but not trying to find solutions. It is all
well and good to say "We have a need for lower cost housing." But,
that is not posting a positive change. It is simply pointing out a
fault. Posting a positive change would require the additional step of
pointing out a change that could be made to begin solving the problem.
>
> I have lived in eight cities in Idaho, and eight other cities around the
> country ranging in size from a few hundred to over a million, I am fourth
> generation resident of Moscow, but according to you I haven't lived in
> enough cities or know Moscow well enough?
I never said you didn't know Moscow well enough. I simply don't think
you are comparing apples toapples when you list the things we don't
have that other communities do. I also think you are wrong when you
look at just Moscow, without also putting Pullman in the picture.
While the communities do compete, they're like siamese twins. They
can't get away from each other, and they frequently compliment one
another.
>
> Humm, what is the definition of irony again?
>
i⋅ro⋅ny1 /ˈaɪrəni, ˈaɪər-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation
[ahy-ruh-nee,
ahy-er-] –noun, plural -nies. 1. the use of words to convey a meaning
that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply,
"How nice!" when I said I had to work all weekend.
> If I am negative, it must be because of the negativity I get from certain
> people on this forum, because I certainly don't carry it in my home,
work,
> or in person.
One thing I've learned: You get what you give in life.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
> --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Darrell Keim <keim153@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Darrell Keim <keim153@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I Program
> Cuts)
> To: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
> Cc: "Jennifer Ingalls" <jennifer@inlandradio.com>,
"vision 2020"
> <vision2020@moscow.com>
> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 3:38 PM
>
> A couple of answers below:
> 2009/1/15 Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>:
>> Darrell,
>>
>> You obviously don't know me well if you don't know I have
lived in
>> many cities, half in Idaho.
> Obviously I don't know you well. Judging by the negative attitude you
> portray on this listserv, I think I like it that way. I will point
> out that having lived in many cities, half in Idaho, is not a terribly
> wide breadth of experience.
> I am pointing out why students don't stay in
>> Moscow. Obviously, the people that stay in Moscow find it to their
perfect
>> likely.
>>
>> But the issue is, if you want people to come here, UI and the city to
do
>> well, I would focus on the positive things you can do to improve that
>> situation. Not make excuses as why we cannot, or shouldn't do
anything
> to
>> help other people out.
> Focus on the positive things to improve is what I like to see, also.
> All I ever seem to see from you is the opposite.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Donovan
>>
>> --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Darrell Keim <keim153@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Darrell Keim <keim153@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I
Program
>> Cuts)
>> To: "Jennifer Ingalls" <jennifer@inlandradio.com>
>> Cc: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com, "vision 2020"
> <vision2020@moscow.com>
>> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 11:19 AM
>>
>> Donovan:
>> Have you ever lived anywhere outside of Moscow? Especially in a
>> similarly sized community? I have, several different places in fact,
>> and I'm willing to bet you have not. For the size town it is,
Moscow
>> has an impressive list of things for families to do. And, despite
>> your incessant carping, a decent range of salaries, too. The key is
>> that you have to compare apples to apples.
>> Instead of listing what you think the town doesn't have, maybe you
>> should try being positive for a change. Perhaps the listserv will
>> help you come up with a list of things to do in town. I'll start:
>> Great restaurants
>> Nice parks
>> Several art galleries
>> What can you add, V2020?
>>> From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:30 AM
>>> To: 'vision 2020'; Jennifer Ingalls
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I
> Program
>>> Cuts)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jennifer,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I liked doing all those things too as a child in Moscow. But lets
face
> it,
>>> there is only so some many times you can visit the McConnell
Mansion
>> before
>>> it no longer entertaining to a child. And camping doesn't
count
>> because you
>>> have to leave Moscow to go do it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are an outdoors type of person, there are lots of things to
do
> in
>>> North Idaho. But for many people that are not, it leaves something
to
> be
>>> desired.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> One of the biggest complaints I heard from students was that there
was
>>> nothing to do in Moscow, and why so many people supported the
Student
>>> Recreation Building, which is more like a glorified and over
priced
> Idaho
>>> Athletic Club with a climbing wall then a recreation center for
> different
>>> kinds of recreational activities.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do not think I have found a mother at UI that thought
Moscow's
>> daycare was
>>> inexpensive. There is a huge waiting list too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What few things there are to do in Moscow, also cost a lot of
money,
> which
>>> is hard to afford when you have no money, because there are no
jobs
> that
>> pay
>>> above what you need to scrape by.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There is less to do in Moscow now then was when my Mother was
child in
>>> Moscow.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have no bowling alley. We have no roller skating ring. We have
no
> IMax
>>> Theater. We have fewer quality restaurants. We have no high tech
> gaming
>>> center. We have no science discovery park, we have no big museums.
No
> race
>>> cars. No theme parks, no big fancy hangouts, we don't even
really
> have
>> a
>>> year round swimming pool,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The best thing Moscow has for entertainment is the Library. Which
is a
>> great
>>> library, but hardly the place that comes to mind when we want to
think
>> about
>>> entertainment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, you can always THINK of something to do in Moscow, but that
is
> the
>>> problem, you really have to THINK, to find something to do. Its
> Midnight
>> in
>>> Moscow, besides the bars and the Jack N the Crack drive-thru, what
is
>> open?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Donovan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 1/14/09, Jennifer Ingalls
<jennifer@inlandradio.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Jennifer Ingalls <jennifer@inlandradio.com>
>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I
Program
> Cuts)
>>> To: "'vision 2020'"
<vision2020@moscow.com>
>>> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 1:27 PM
>>>
>>> I don't necessarily want to get into the argument about
diversity
> in
>> Moscow
>>> or at UI, but I do take some issue with Donovan's statement,
> "Not
>> to mention
>>> the lack of affordable child care, or family fun activities."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I grew up in Moscow and though my family had more money than
families
>> where
>>> a student is the primary financier of the household, we were not
at a
> loss
>>> for family-friendly free activities (unless we were willfully
bored).
> This
>>> is not to say that we can't do better as a community at
providing
> free
>>> and/or inexpensive activities, but I think many of us forget those
> things
>>> that are available to us. For example, I –regretfully—cannot
> remember
>> the
>>> last time I went to the McConnell Mansion or picked up a walking
tour
>> guide
>>> of the towns history and hoofed it through Fort Russell (two
> activities
>> that
>>> occupied Spring and Summer days of my youth). The library (which I
>> remember
>>> as only being the old part of the building) was cool in the Summer
and
>> warm
>>> in the Winter. Organizations like Campfire, Boy Scouts, Girl
Scouts
> and
>>> local churches provided the three of us a lot of fun and
educational
>>> activities (both our family's church of choice and the
churches or
>> religious
>>> organizations of friends). My mom used to take us to Good Sam to
>> distribute
>>> our wares after craft days at the house. We'd ride bikes out
to
>> Robinson
>>> Lake Park , "fish" in Hordeman's pond, or take
advantage
> of
>> all the
>>> demonstrations, concerts and educational lectures the University
> offered.
>>> There were a lot of things to do!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll grant that I was a nerdy kid (still am). I, too, would
love
> to
>> see more
>>> activities available after school that would appeal to "at
> risk"
>> youth (I AM
>>> doing something about that with my involvement in Latah County
Youth
>>> Advocacy Council), but I don't think can jump on board with
the
> whole
>>> "there's nothing to do here" claim.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jennifer L. Ingalls
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================================
>>>
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>
>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>
>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
>>>
>>> =======================================================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================================
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
>>> =======================================================
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
=======================================================</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>