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I've been reading all of the comments back and forth regarding Christian communion and faith in God, and I concluded, after the Santa Claus prayer posted yesterday, that the discussion had deteriorated beyond what I could hope to remedy. But I was reading in the O.T. last night and came across this, which I'll submit as my contribution to a discussion I hope regains its respectful footing:<br><br>Habakkuk 3:17-18:<br><br>Thought the fig tree does not blossom, and no fruit is on the vines; <br>though the produce of the olive fails, and the fields yield no food;<br>though the flock is cut off from the fold, and there is no herd in the stalls,<br>yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will exult in the God of my salvation. <br>For God, the Lord, is my strength.<br><br>Keely<br>http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/<br><br><br><br><br><hr id="stopSpelling">From: josephc@wsu.edu<br>To: whayman@roadrunner.com<br>Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 21:00:56 -0700<br>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fragments of our Lord<br><br><div>I agree. You can't respond to the skeptic and it is silly to try. But this doesn't mean that our most basic beliefs are based on reason. Otherwise there would be something more direct and less poetic to say!<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Jan 1, 2009, at 8:27 PM, "Warren Hayman" <<a href="mailto:whayman@roadrunner.com">whayman@roadrunner.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote><div>
<div>All this rather reminds me of Johnson's famous literary moment of kicking a
rock and saying, "Thus I refute Berkeley." A couple hundred years later, someone
came up with this reply:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>"Epistemology" by Richard Wilbur</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I.</div>
<div>Kick at the rock, Sam Johnson, break your bones:</div>
<div>But cloudy, cloudy is the stuff of stones.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>II.</div>
<div>We milk the cow of the world, and as we do</div>
<div>We whisper in her ear, “You are not true.”</div>
<div class="EC_snap_preview">
Warren Hayman<BR>
<BR></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="josephc@wsu.edu" href="mailto:josephc@wsu.edu">Joseph Campbell</a>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>To:</b> <a title="deco@moscow.com" href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 01, 2009 6:02
PM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Fragments of
our Lord</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Evidence is always lacking! If you disagree prove that the external world
exists or that the future will be like the past without begging the question.
But I wouldn't call what's holding up your beliefs faith either. This is a
false dilemma. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Best, Joe<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br>On Jan 1, 2009, at 4:13 PM, "Art Deco" <<a href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"></a><a href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div>
<div></div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div><font size="2">Remember faith is necessary when evidence is
lacking. The less evidence, the stronger faith needed or exhibited by
believers, religious, political, social, or otherwise.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2">W.</font></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="nielsen@uidaho.edu" href="mailto:nielsen@uidaho.edu">Ralph
Nielsen</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>To:</b> <a title="donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</a> ; <a title="Vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">vision
2020</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 01, 2009
12:55 PM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Subject:</b> [Vision2020] Fragments of
our Lord</div>
<div><br></div>
<div style=""><font style="font-family: Times; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;" size="5" face="Times"><b>Donovan Arnold</b> <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com?Subject=%5BVision2020%5D%20Fragments%20of%20our%20Lord&In-Reply-To=ef6f41de0901010044m56e87fd4t7cd302b68bbb8698@mail.gmail.com"><font style="color: rgb(0, 10, 241);" color="#000af1"><u>donovanjarnold2005 at
yahoo.com </u></font></a></font></div>
<div style=""><font style="font-family: Times; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;" size="5" face="Times"><i>Thu Jan 1 11:03:42 PST 2009</i></font></div>
<div style="min-height: 19px; font-family: Times; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><br></div>
<div style=""><font style="font-family: Courier; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;" size="4" face="Courier">Chas,</font></div>
<p style=""><font style="font-family: Courier; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;" size="4" face="Courier"></font> </p>
<div style=""><font style="font-family: Courier; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;" size="4" face="Courier">Most all Christians believe false Gods exist. But there is only one
True God. </font></div>
<p style=""><font style="font-family: Courier; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;" size="4" face="Courier"></font> </p>
<div style=""><font style="font-family: Courier; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;" size="4" face="Courier">I have little faith in God because I am a weak person. But I
do believe that He exists. I have to pray for faith that He will do
right by me. I resist Him all the time because I want to be free to do
what I want for me, not what is right for Him. </font></div>
<p style=""><font style="font-family: Courier; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;" size="4" face="Courier"></font> </p>
<div style=""><font style="font-family: Courier; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;" size="4" face="Courier">Believing He exists is indisputable because of what I have
witnessed and witnessed with others. So that is the easier part for me. I
don't think I am special, I think God reveals himself to everyone at some
point if He needs to. </font></div>
<p style=""><font style="font-family: Courier; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;" size="4" face="Courier"></font> </p>
<div style=""><font style="font-family: Courier; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;" size="4" face="Courier">But faith, that is difficult to acquire, even people that boast
they have much more than most, have little. </font></div>
<p style=""><font style="font-family: Courier; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;" size="4" face="Courier"></font> </p>
<div style=""><font style="font-family: Courier; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;" size="4" face="Courier">Best Regards,</font></div>
<p style=""><font style="font-family: Courier; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;" size="4" face="Courier"></font> </p>
<div style=""><font style="font-family: Courier; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;" size="4" face="Courier">Donovan</font></div>
<p style=""><font style="font-family: Courier; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;" size="4" face="Courier"></font> </p>
<p style=""><font class="EC_Apple-style-span" size="3" face="Courier"><span class="EC_Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></p>
<p style=""><font class="EC_Apple-style-span" size="3" face="Courier"><span class="EC_Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">The harder you
believe in some being the more real he becomes. This is true of all
objects of faith, including Santa Claus.</span></font></p>
<p style=""><font class="EC_Apple-style-span" size="3" face="Courier"><span class="EC_Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">Ralph</span></font></p>
<BR>
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