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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Jumping
in where I have no real business (I have absolutely no interest in guns, or in
hunting, but also don’t want the Second Amendment done away with,
although I do think reasonable limits are . . . reasonable) . . . <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Don
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>I'm shocked at
hearing that people still shoot at rustling trees or where they may hit
buildings.”</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Perhaps
alcohol plays a factor in the <b>stupidity</b> that’s common in some
areas like here? I’m frankly shocked at the <b>huge</b> numbers of
Joe & Jill Six Pack hunters I routinely see. Just as driving &
alcohol don’t mix, I don’t think guns & alcohol mix <b>at all</b>.
Plain, simple common sense would tell any reasonable person that as well, but
based on what I see all the time around here, common sense is clearly lacking
with hordes of local hunters, and it must not be illegal, either, to be
drinking alcohol and hunting based on the hunters I see not even bothering to
be sly about it. <shaking my head><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Don’t
get me wrong: I know there are responsible hunters who don’t drink
while hunting, don’t take shots that aren’t likely to be lethal, and
all the things we expect from responsible gun enthusiasts. However, I see
way more of the Joe & Jill Six Pack shooters & hunters out there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Personally,
I think there should be <b>dire</b> consequences for morons who mix alcohol and
weapons, including bow-and-arrow hunters.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Saundra Lund<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Moscow, ID<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good
people to do nothing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>~ Edmund Burke<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2008
through life plus 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt,
or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum without the express written
permission of the author.*****<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>donald edwards<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> vision2020@moscow.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Gun Bans<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Not off the point at all "Art", I
agree with your post entirely. I don't actually hunt (always willing to
take some jerkey off a hunters hands though!) and only target shoot rarely for
fun with a veteran friend of mine (because I know I won't get shot by him
screwing around) My point was mainly to show that previous attempts at regulation
were focused on the wrong agenda, being the guns themselves and trying to
identify which look fancier than the rest vs. regulating who will actually be
using them. <br>
<br>
I think it should be a system that's follows our driving regulations where all
users will have to pass a course and prove their responsibility in using
their weapons and show a penchant for the safety of everyone else on the
range or in the fields. Knowing your backdrop should be lesson #1, I'm
shocked at hearing that people still shoot at rustling trees or where they may
hit buildings. I guess my own experience would be a glowing case study
for this type of requirement because I myself skirted the law at a
show when I was 17 or 18 and ended up shooting my 9mm (sold long ago) through a
tv toward a neighboring apartment, luckily it didn't exit the tv but could it
could have easily been a tragedy.<br>
<br>
I think we sometimes don't realize that gun regulations are written by people
from metro areas who do not see the problem from the point of view that we in
the fields of Idaho see it. Child locks are cheap and easy enough to
do. There's really isn't much use for AR-15's or their wooden stock
equals in the closets of a house in New York City where it is more likely to be
stolen and end up on the street. The laws stem from idiots like the man
in Stockton who shot up the daycare or the man on the subway unloading 16 round
9mm clips. Maybe there should be geographical restrictions to certain
types of guns? I'm not sure which is why I'm here reading the differing
views.<br>
<br>
Don<br>
<br>
<br>
> Message: 3<br>
> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:16:03 -0800<br>
> From: "Art Deco" <deco@moscow.com><br>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gun Bans<br>
> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><br>
> Message-ID: <947B504F03DE479DBF85F91B951BEC28@LocalHost><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
> <br>
> Somewhat off the main point, but...<br>
> <br>
> Part of the issues raised about hunting weapons deal with
sportspersonship, fair chase, safety, etc and not about gun control as the NRA
would have all believe.<br>
> <br>
> I am in the woods part of the day at least 5 days out of the week. During
hunting season (now), I hear lots of semi-automatic weapon fire, both from
rifles and shotguns. About two weeks ago, the was a salvo of about 30 shots in
just a few seconds.<br>
> <br>
> I'm showing my age, but when I hunted as a kid in Idaho, semi-automatic
weapons were not allowed. Each round had to be pumped or levered into the
chamber. Shotguns were only allowed to have the capacity of 3 shots before
reloading, and rifles were only allowed to have 5 or six shots. Violators using
semi-automatics in those days were called (rightly so) slob hunters, and they
were ridiculed and shunned by legitimate sportspersons.<br>
> <br>
> The point was that if you were a skilled hunter and sportsperson, you
didn't take a shot unless there was a very high probability that it would be a
lethal one. I wonder what happened to that ethic.<br>
> <br>
> On a related subject, I was a boy/explorer scout for several years. I went
through weapon/hunting safety training at least 6 and maybe 10 times. In
addition, I was asked to monitor and to evaluate a weapon/hunting safety course
for first-time violators in California. One cardinal rule then taught was: Do
not hunt within your weapon's range of any dwelling, highway, main off-road, or
campground, or any domestic livestock, horse, or fowl farm/ranch or pasturage.<br>
> <br>
> I understand that this rule is no longer taught in weapon/hunter safety
courses in Idaho. What a pity. Several houses in our neighborhood have been hit
by rifle fire or strafed by shotgun pellets. When I lived in Boundary County
during the 1980s, it was a rare hunting seasons when some cattle or even horses
were not accidently injured or slaughtered either by hunter
stupidity/carelessness or stray bullets.<br>
> <br>
> In addition, when I hunted as a kid, people used to hunt mainly with
30.06s or 30-30s which have a range of about a mile. Now we have these crazys
firing high muzzle velocity .222s which have a range of about 2 1/2 miles. In
addition, we have other crazys using bulked up .50 caliber rifles; aside from
the fact they sound like cannons and can be heard for miles, they have a range
of about five miles.<br>
> <br>
> Not to belabor a point, but some hunters do not clearly identify what they
are shooting at, nor do they consider the consequences of missing. Some still
shoot at just sounds in the woods, especially toward the end of hunting season
(or just after). Not only do hunters and others get killed by careless hunters,
but many, many more careless hunters narrowly miss (thankfully) shooting
others. I can personally testify to having been a target several times -- the
last time about three years ago, two days after the close of hunting season.<br>
> <br>
> So when people argue that they ought be allowed to hunt with semi-automatics,
etc, they fail to sway me. The woods are unsafe enough with single shot
weapons. People making such arguments only convince me that they are unskilled
slob hunters without regard of the safety of others, or of taking a clean,
sportspersonlike shot at their target.<br>
> <br>
> W.<br>
> <br>
> ----- Original Message ----- <br>
> From: donald edwards <br>
> To: vision2020@moscow.com <br>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 12:07 PM<br>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gun Bans<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> I think some people have missed the point in Mike's post. There are
weapons on the banned list that have the exact same capabilites and capacity as
regular ol' hunting rifles. Banning these based on their appearance alone is
kind of a weird premis, right? If you can't buy an M1-Garand that holds a 30
round clip and fires semi-automatically (or just installing a bayonet makes it
illegal) but can walk right in a buy a regular looking, wooden stock 30-06 with
the exact same capability, than what's the point of the ban? Personally, it's
annoying to have to install a wooden dowel into a pump action shotgun so that
it will only hold 2 shells vs. 7-8. Not much point again.<br>
> <br>
> Most gansta's probably prefer .22 small caliber pistols anyway because
they are easy to conceal, much quieter, much lighter, pennies per shot vs.
quarters, can hold 100 round clips or more, fire semi-automatically (or easily
converted to full auto) and the bullets actually either richochet around off of
bone and internals or scatter into little pieces inside causing greater damage
and infection where a 9mm would zip right through at subsonic speed practically
cautorizing the wound as it enters and exits.<br>
> <br>
> Don<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> > From: vision2020-request@moscow.com<br>
> > Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 125<br>
> > To: vision2020@moscow.com<br>
> > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 05:30:11 -0800<br>
> > <br>
> > Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to<br>
> > vision2020@moscow.com<br>
> > <br>
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
> > http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020<br>
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
> > vision2020-request@moscow.com<br>
> > <br>
> > You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
> > vision2020-owner@moscow.com<br>
> > <br>
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
> > than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > Today's Topics:<br>
> > <br>
> > 1. Re: obama election / gun purchases (Scott Dredge)<br>
> > 2. Special Comment on Gay Marriage ~ Keith Olbermann (Chasuk)<br>
> > 3. Re: obama election / gun purchases (Donovan Arnold)<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> >
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> > <br>
> > Message: 1<br>
> > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:26:56 -0700<br>
> > From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408@hotmail.com><br>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] obama election / gun purchases<br>
> > To: <mike_l_f@hotmail.com>, viz <vision2020@moscow.com><br>
> > Message-ID: <BAY117-W192BDACC6DD19D1D4ACCBFE4150@phx.gbl><br>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > There isn't much support for reinstating the Federal Assault Weapons
Ban. There would need to be some kind of catalyst like there was with the
Stockton Massacre back in 1989 where some unstable guy got ahold of a
semi-automatic rifle and shot up a bunch of school children.<br>
> > <br>
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockton_massacre<br>
> > <br>
> > Before the ban took effect, sales increased dramatically on AK-47s
and Colt AR-15s.<br>
> > <br>
> > As far as I know, the VA Tech Massacre last year did not produced any
changes in gun control laws or lack thereof.<br>
> > <br>
> > It's interesting to read about how 'the sky is falling' on 2nd
Amendment rights. This Obama character looks to be an unstoppable juggernaut
which is quite a contrast to an impotent George W. Bush. I wonder why.<br>
> > <br>
> > -Scott<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > > From: mike_l_f@hotmail.com<br>
> > > To: vision2020@moscow.com<br>
> > > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 04:26:43 +0000<br>
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] obama election / gun purchases<br>
> > > <br>
> > > Setting aside anything that Senator Obama may have said or done
in the past, <br>
> > > people are concerned about his effect on honest gun owners
because on the <br>
> > > http://change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy/ web site there is this
statement -<br>
> > > <br>
> > > "They also support making the expired federal Assault
Weapons Ban permanent"<br>
> > > <br>
> > > If you aren't familiar with firearms that may seem reasonable,
but when you <br>
> > > look at the details it's pretty obvious that it's not an
effective tool <br>
> > > against crime. First, the government admitted that ?... the
weapons banned <br>
> > > by this legislation [1994 Federal Assault Weapons ban - since
repealed] were <br>
> > > used only rarely in gun crimes?. (National Institute of Justice,
March <br>
> > > 1999) Secondly, there was no positive effect. Violent crime has
continued <br>
> > > to trend downward since the ban was lifted, and rifles of any
description <br>
> > > continue to be involved in a tiny percentage of crimes.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > The law was based largely on the way rifles look. Features such
as barrel <br>
> > > shrouds, pistol grips and other ergonomic features may set them
apart from <br>
> > > classic walnut stocked sporting rifles, but seem pretty trivial
from a <br>
> > > criminal perspective. The two mechanical features mentioned are
that these <br>
> > > firearms have a detachable box magazine which can hold several
cartridges, <br>
> > > and the self-loading action allows you to fire one shot with
each pull of <br>
> > > the trigger until the magazine is empty.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > By comparison I was looking at a 1950's Remington Woodsmaster
rifle in Sure <br>
> > > Shot sporting goods last week. It has a fine walnut stock, is
self-loading, <br>
> > > has a detachable box magazine and fires the 30-06, a far more
powerful <br>
> > > cartridge than almost all of the rifles on the "Assault
Weapons" list. <br>
> > > There are many hundreds of thousands of rifles similar to that
in hunter's <br>
> > > closets around the country. Do you wonder that they are
concerned about <br>
> > > laws banning similar firearms?<br>
> > > <br>
> > > But people say they only want to ban firearms which can shoot 20
or 30 times <br>
> > > without reloading. It would be pretty easy to put a larger
magazine on the <br>
> > > Woodsmaster or it's cousins, and I wonder when they will decide
that also <br>
> > > includes shotguns. If you load your pump shotgun with five 00
buckshot <br>
> > > cartridges and fire until it's empty, you will have sent 45
heavy lead .33 <br>
> > > caliber balls at your target. They won't travel as far as a
rifle bullet, <br>
> > > but anyone within 100 yards will be in deadly danger.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > In other words, banning a category of weapons which are only
cosmetically <br>
> > > different than common hunting rifles, and no more lethal than
common <br>
> > > shotguns seems like a cynical first step towards - what? There
is no <br>
> > > evidence it's for crime control.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > In 2003 the Center for Disease Control published a review of
studies from <br>
> > > several countries. They state that they found "insufficient
evidence to <br>
> > > determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws reviewed
for <br>
> > > preventing violence". (Wikipedia) It seems that criminals
are willing to <br>
> > > break laws to get weapons. There have been several academic
studies which <br>
> > > revealed many benefits that honest citizens gain from owning
firearms for <br>
> > > self defense, but this is already too long to go into that.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > This country has done well over the last two centuries for
several reasons. <br>
> > > One of them is the balance of power. We have been suffering
through a <br>
> > > period where one group has been acting to restrict some of our
rights. This <br>
> > > years election can probably be seen as a reaction to that. The
pendulum <br>
> > > swings. If the government distrusts the citizens so much that it
fears <br>
> > > leaving them effectively armed, at some future date will the
party in power <br>
> > > decide that elections are too dangerous, and they now have the
power to stop <br>
> > > the pendulum?<br>
> > > <br>
> > > - Mike<br>
> > > <br>
> > > Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands,<br>
> > > hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.<br>
> > > -- H. L. <br>
> > > MENCKEN<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > <br>
> > _________________________________________________________________<br>
> > Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with
Windows Live<br>
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/<br>
> > -------------- next part --------------<br>
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
> > URL:
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<br>
> > <br>
> > ------------------------------<br>
> > <br>
> > Message: 2<br>
> > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 01:18:22 -0800<br>
> > From: Chasuk <chasuk@gmail.com><br>
> > Subject: [Vision2020] Special Comment on Gay Marriage ~ Keith<br>
> > Olbermann<br>
> > To: Vision2020 <vision2020@moscow.com><br>
> > Message-ID:<br>
> > <ef6f41de0811110118g3726c791i63a3d901c26e968c@mail.gmail.com><br>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
> > <br>
> > I know that Keith can be bombastic, but this is good.<br>
> > <br>
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnHyy8gkNEE<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > ------------------------------<br>
> > <br>
> > Message: 3<br>
> > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 05:30:06 -0800 (PST)<br>
> > From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com><br>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] obama election / gun purchases<br>
> > To: vision2020@moscow.com, Mike Finkbiner
<mike_l_f@hotmail.com><br>
> > Message-ID: <840716.25759.qm@web38103.mail.mud.yahoo.com><br>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
> > <br>
> > Mike,<br>
> > ?<br>
> > The majority of weapons used in murder are actually handguns. So
banning weapons on the bases of how often they are used as a murder weapon is
not always?practical. <br>
> > ?<br>
> > Most people agree with banning assault weapons because they are
dangerous machines that can be used only in?tragic ways and go well beyond?the
need of self-defense. <br>
> > ?<br>
> > The rate of murders are not caused by the type of weapons available
so much as they are based on the economic and social conditions of the culture
at the time. Meaning, murders go up or down based on how desperate the people
are for a decent living. <br>
> > ?<br>
> > I think it is the right of every law abiding decent human
when?properly trained?to own a handgun for personal protection from harm
against him/her their family and property. They should also have the right to a
rifle or high power weapon for killing game. But I think an assault weapon
designed to kill hundreds of people in a few minutes is beyond what an average
citizen could possibly need for legitimate purposes. I think if someone wants
such a weapon, they should have to demonstrate a reasonable need for it, and
get special license for it. <br>
> > ?<br>
> > Best Regards,<br>
> > ?<br>
> > Donovan<br>
> > <br>
> > --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Mike Finkbiner <mike_l_f@hotmail.com>
wrote:<br>
> > <br>
> > From: Mike Finkbiner <mike_l_f@hotmail.com><br>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] obama election / gun purchases<br>
> > To: vision2020@moscow.com<br>
> > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 8:26 PM<br>
> > <br>
> > Setting aside anything that Senator Obama may have said or done in
the past,<br>
> > people are concerned about his effect on honest gun owners because on
the<br>
> > http://change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy/ web site there is this
statement -<br>
> > <br>
> > "They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons
Ban<br>
> > permanent"<br>
> > <br>
> > If you aren't familiar with firearms that may seem reasonable, but
when you<br>
> > look at the details it's pretty obvious that it's not an effective
tool<br>
> > against crime. First, the government admitted that ?... the weapons
banned<br>
> > by this legislation [1994 Federal Assault Weapons ban - since
repealed] were<br>
> > used only rarely in gun crimes?. (National Institute of Justice,
March 1999) <br>
> > Secondly, there was no positive effect. Violent crime has continued
to trend<br>
> > downward since the ban was lifted, and rifles of any description
continue to be<br>
> > involved in a tiny percentage of crimes.<br>
> > <br>
> > The law was based largely on the way rifles look. Features such as
barrel<br>
> > shrouds, pistol grips and other ergonomic features may set them apart
from<br>
> > classic walnut stocked sporting rifles, but seem pretty trivial from
a criminal<br>
> > perspective. The two mechanical features mentioned are that these
firearms<br>
> > have a detachable box magazine which can hold several cartridges, and
the<br>
> > self-loading action allows you to fire one shot with each pull of the
trigger<br>
> > until the magazine is empty.<br>
> > <br>
> > By comparison I was looking at a 1950's Remington Woodsmaster rifle
in Sure<br>
> > Shot sporting goods last week. It has a fine walnut stock, is
self-loading, has<br>
> > a detachable box magazine and fires the 30-06, a far more powerful
cartridge<br>
> > than almost all of the rifles on the "Assault Weapons"
list. There<br>
> > are many hundreds of thousands of rifles similar to that in hunter's
closets<br>
> > around the country. Do you wonder that they are concerned about laws
banning<br>
> > similar firearms?<br>
> > <br>
> > But people say they only want to ban firearms which can shoot 20 or
30 times<br>
> > without reloading. It would be pretty easy to put a larger magazine
on the<br>
> > Woodsmaster or it's cousins, and I wonder when they will decide that
also<br>
> > includes shotguns. If you load your pump shotgun with five 00
buckshot<br>
> > cartridges and fire until it's empty, you will have sent 45 heavy
lead .33<br>
> > caliber balls at your target. They won't travel as far as a rifle
bullet,<br>
> > but anyone within 100 yards will be in deadly danger.<br>
> > <br>
> > In other words, banning a category of weapons which are only
cosmetically<br>
> > different than common hunting rifles, and no more lethal than common
shotguns<br>
> > seems like a cynical first step towards - what? There is no evidence
it's<br>
> > for crime control.<br>
> > <br>
> > In 2003 the Center for Disease Control published a review of studies
from<br>
> > several countries. They state that they found "insufficient
evidence to<br>
> > determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws reviewed for
preventing<br>
> > violence". (Wikipedia) It seems that criminals are willing to
break laws<br>
> > to get weapons. There have been several academic studies which
revealed many<br>
> > benefits that honest citizens gain from owning firearms for self
defense, but<br>
> > this is already too long to go into that.<br>
> > <br>
> > This country has done well over the last two centuries for several
reasons. <br>
> > One of them is the balance of power. We have been suffering through a
period<br>
> > where one group has been acting to restrict some of our rights. This
years<br>
> > election can probably be seen as a reaction to that. The pendulum
swings. If<br>
> > the government distrusts the citizens so much that it fears leaving
them<br>
> > effectively armed, at some future date will the party in power decide
that<br>
> > elections are too dangerous, and they now have the power to stop the
pendulum?<br>
> > <br>
> > - Mike<br>
> > <br>
> > Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands,<br>
> > hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.<br>
> > -- H. L.<br>
> > MENCKEN<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > =======================================================<br>
> > List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>
> > http://www.fsr.net <br>
> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>
> > =======================================================<br>
> > <br>
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> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>
> > =======================================================<br>
> > <br>
> > End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 125<br>
> > *******************************************<br>
> <br>
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