<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<STYLE>.hmmessage P {
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
BODY.hmmessage {
FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana
}
</STYLE>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16735" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY class=hmmessage bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>What I want to know is why the painfully obvious gags were
left off. I mean come on! Dutch elm disease? Dutch uncles? Marching in wooden
shoes? Comedy gold and all of it left to rot. Somewhere Morey Amsterdam hangs
his head and weeps.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=scooterd408@hotmail.com href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">Scott
Dredge</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A> ;
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">viz</A> ;
<A title=chasuk@gmail.com href="mailto:chasuk@gmail.com">chasuk@gmail.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 09, 2008 2:57
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] gays in the
Military</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Donovan,<BR><BR>This might have been good for a chuckle the
first time you sent it, but after receiving the 4th consecutive identical
email all with the identical punchlines, it's now just
annoying.<BR><BR>-Scott<BR><BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 01:01:12 -0800<BR>From: <A
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A><BR>To:
<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>; <A
href="mailto:chasuk@gmail.com">chasuk@gmail.com</A><BR>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] gays in the Military<BR><BR>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; -x-system-font: none"
vAlign=top>
<DIV>Wow! I didn't know there was a Dutch army.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best Regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sun, 11/9/08, Chasuk <I><<A
href="mailto:chasuk@gmail.com">chasuk@gmail.com</A>></I></B>
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From:
Chasuk <chasuk@gmail.com><BR>Subject: [Vision2020] gays in the
Military<BR>To: "Vision2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>Date:
Sunday, November 9, 2008, 12:53 AM<BR><BR><PRE>http://www.radionetherlands.nl/thestatewerein/otherstates/081107-gays-military<BR><BR>The Open Soldier<BR><BR>Major Peter Kees Hamstra has been in the Dutch army for almost thirty<BR>years and for two thirds of that time he's been openly gay. In 1974<BR>the Dutch armed forces was the first in the world to make it possible<BR>to serve and to be openly homosexual and since that time just a<BR>handful of other countries have followed suit.<BR><BR>Major Hamstra is now the chairman of the organization for<BR>homosexuality in the Dutch services. "My sexuality is not an issue,"<BR>he says. And, in fact, if someone was being openly discriminatory<BR>towards him they stand the chance of being disciplined or even<BR>dismissed.<BR><BR>In fact, Major Hamstra is the archetypal modern Dutch gay man. He's a<BR>respected army officer, married (to a man of course as the Netherlands<BR>was also the first country to legalise same sex marriages) and who is<BR>not afraid to take his partner to official army functions.<BR><BR>He comes in to the Hilversum studio slightly out of breath, as he lost<BR>his way in the car and was nervous about being late but when it's all<BR>over and after saying how much he enjoyed the interview he says he<BR>must leave promptly - he must collect his daughter from her school.<BR><BR>However, there are occasional problems. When serving abroad in Bosnia<BR>and Iraq he was forced to close the closet door shut once again. Not<BR>from his Dutch colleagues but from his peace-keeping allies. The<BR>Netherlands has always been a pioneering country for equal rights but<BR>that doesn't mean to say it rubs off on others.<BR><BR>The Closeted Soldier<BR><BR>When I first spoke to Marco on the phone to organize our meeting, he<BR>sounded perfectly at ease with the idea of being interviewed. He said<BR>he enjoyed speaking English and was looking forward to meeting me and<BR>telling me more about their fledgling association, Polis Aperta. We<BR>arranged to meet at 5.30pm in front of Ferrara station. He'd pick me<BR>up in his car and we'd do the interview in his apartment. "You'll<BR>spot<BR>me easily," I told him, "I'm short, have long red hair and look<BR>unmistakeably English". "You'll spot me easily too," he<BR>laughed, "I'll<BR>be coming straight from work so I'll still be wearing my uniform."<BR>Needless to say, we had no problem finding each other and I was<BR>confident everything else would go as I'd anticipated. But during the<BR>short journey from the station to Marco's flat, he made two requests<BR>that took me completely by surprise.<BR><BR>The first was that I should only use his first name and the second was<BR>that I should describe him as 'working in the military', without<BR>mentioning which of the armed forces he is a member of. "Ferrara's a<BR>small town and there aren't many English speakers in the forces. I'd<BR>be too easily identified." I was shocked at the unexpected revelation,<BR>"You mean you aren't out?"<BR><BR>"Absolutely not." This revelation and my shock are, I think, the<BR>essence of this issue and the need in contemporary Italy for an<BR>association like Polis Aperta. Marco struck me as somebody who was<BR>happy to talk about his sexuality, unashamed for me to know he was<BR>gay, proud to be part of this anti-discrimination campaign... yet, in<BR>the military context, things couldn't be more different.<BR><BR>Here was a man in his mid-thirties who had spent 15 years doing a job<BR>he really enjoyed, but a job in which he still felt the need to hide a<BR>fundamental aspect of his identity. His worry that I might<BR>unintentionally out him, thereby jeopardizing his career, made me<BR>realise just how far behind other countries Italy is when it comes to<BR>gay rights in the armed forces. I wouldn't say Italy is any more or<BR>less homophobic than other European countries. In most professions<BR>here, the right to be gay is taken for granted. In the police and the<BR>military it is not.<BR><BR>Although there is no rule in Italy that explicitly bans homosexuals<BR>from joining the forces, there is a loophole in an old recruitment law<BR>about one's 'psychological stability relating to sexual<BR>orientation'.<BR>Marco says that new recruits who openly reveal they are gay will<BR>almost certainly be rejected on these grounds, no matter how at ease<BR>they may be with their sexuality.<BR><BR>If you are already in the forces and are lucky enough to have an<BR>open-minded superior and colleagues, coming out need not be an issue,<BR>but discrimination is arbitrary and there is no unit or union to<BR>protect you against it. Covert discrimination might entail you being<BR>given the worst tasks, randomly transferred or even denied<BR>promotion... but never ostensibly because of your homosexuality. With<BR>no sexual discrimination laws to protect gay members of the armed<BR>forces, Polis Aperta was born of a genuine feeling of necessity.<BR><BR>The association began as an on-line forum back in 2005 - a way for<BR>people like Marco to vent their frustration and help each other deal<BR>with discrimination issues based on sexual orientation. The name Polis<BR>Aperta can be translated as "Open City". Their aim is to achieve<BR>this.<BR>They say that being gay in many European forces is not just a right<BR>but a bonus.<BR><BR>Being the best English speaker of the association, Marco usually<BR>represents Polis Aperta at international meetings of gay/lesbian<BR>police and military associations. In his experience, many countries<BR>now make positive practical use of gay members of their forces,<BR>getting them to train heterosexual officers in how to deal with<BR>homophobic hate crime.<BR><BR>He'd like to see the same approach in Italy, though he thinks<BR>achieving it will be a long process. But if Polis Aperta is recognized<BR>by the government and given legal status as an anti-discrimination<BR>association, Marco believes the first major bridge will have been<BR>crossed. "When we feel confident that we can come out without putting<BR>our careers at risk and know there is someone who'll fight for us and<BR>defend us if necessary, then I guess things will really change."<BR><BR>The Retired Soldier<BR><BR>Lieutenant Colonel Robert Maginnis may have retired from the US army<BR>in 1993 but in the intervening years he's made good use of his<BR>military experience. He's now an expert on national security and<BR>foreign affairs. He has also been the vice- president of the Family<BR>Research Council, an organisation espousing what it sees as<BR>quintessentially American values centred on family life.<BR><BR>One of his more controversial roles is speaking out against<BR>homosexuality in the US military. He favours a complete ban. The armed<BR>forces in the US currently has a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy<BR>which<BR>states that gay servicemen and women can serve but they cannot be<BR>open. It's a compromise that's been in place for the past 15 years and<BR>which seems to satisfy very few people. It's already led to 12500<BR>people being discharged.<BR><BR>Mr. Maginnis was part of a study group that looked at unit cohesion,<BR>morale and the combat effectiveness of the military if homosexuals<BR>were admitted. His conclusion was that, in tight groups in which trust<BR>is paramount, the inclusion of homosexuals can have an adverse affect.<BR>The military is all about the 'we' he says and not about individuals.<BR>This is why, during training, individuality is drummed out of<BR>recruits. "It's all about a teamed effort to accomplish a<BR>mission." he<BR>says. "When a preference as an individual trumps the preference of<BR>others in the team then that undermines the trust and cohesion that is<BR>so key." Wearing one's sexuality on one's collar, he believes is<BR>not<BR>looking out for the best interests of the team.<BR><BR>It's a charge that is vehemently discounted by others as just being an<BR>argument that people use to put homosexuality in a bad light but Bob<BR>Maginnis is sticking to his guns and if a new US administration<BR>attempts to legalise homosexuality they'll have a fight on their<BR>hands.<BR><BR>The Discharged Soldier<BR><BR>Towards the end of last year army sergeant Darren Manzella thought he<BR>had it all. He'd been promoted a number of times and was fast tracking<BR>in the US medical corps. He was also open about his homosexuality and<BR>was still serving. He thought it was a pioneering step towards getting<BR>rid of the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy. Then he agreed to<BR>being<BR>interviewed for a television programme. Within weeks he was dismissed.<BR><BR>Darren is now working for the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network in<BR>Washington D.C. and is only too willing to talk about his story of<BR>discrimination and hatred.<BR><BR>"It's all confusing to me", he says. "It's hard to look<BR>at a record<BR>and say you've done amazing things and you're an asset to the military<BR>but because of who you are you can no longer stay in the military."<BR><BR>He joined the medical corps for patriotic reasons after 9-11 and on<BR>his first deployment patrolled the streets of Baghdad with bombs going<BR>off around him, snipers shooting at him and mortars and rockets<BR>hitting his base. He saw many people die and suffer horrible injuries.<BR>It was for this reason that, on his return, he decided to tell his<BR>friends and family about his sexuality. "That could have been me," he<BR>says. "That could have been me that didn't return and my family<BR>wouldn't have known this important thing about me."<BR><BR>He told his commander after he started receiving anonymous e-mails and<BR>phone calls threatening him with exposure. The stress was enormous he<BR>says and he wanted to tell his commander in person before he found out<BR>from another source.<BR><BR>And then the surprise. An enquiry concluded that there was nothing to<BR>answer and he could stay in his job. It was at this time that he found<BR>others he could confide in. They were from all branches and all ranks<BR>of the US military. Perhaps it gave him too big a sense of security<BR>because when the sixty minute television programme approached him for<BR>an interview, he decided to speak out. It cost him his profession.<BR><BR>It's estimated that around 65000 men and women are still in the US<BR>military struggling to keep their identity a secret.<BR><BR>=======================================================<BR> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR> http://www.fsr.net <BR> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR>
<HR>
Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail. <A
href="http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5gb_112008"
target=_new>Sign up today.</A>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>=======================================================<BR> List
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<BR>
http://www.fsr.net
<BR>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>