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<BR>Oh, ok. Mainstream media. I was feeling too sarcastic to be posting online this morning. Disregard those. I find that I give the most weight to those with the least to gain. <BR>
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Don<BR><BR><BR>> From: vision2020-request@moscow.com<BR>> Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 13<BR>> To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 14:42:29 -0700<BR>> <BR>> Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to<BR>> vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> <BR>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020<BR>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>> vision2020-request@moscow.com<BR>> <BR>> You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>> vision2020-owner@moscow.com<BR>> <BR>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>> than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Today's Topics:<BR>> <BR>> 1. Re: State Verifies Obama's Birth Certificate (No Weatherman)<BR>> 2. Re: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 3 (No Weatherman)<BR>> 3. Re: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2 (No Weatherman)<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> <BR>> Message: 1<BR>> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 14:37:56 -0700<BR>> From: "No Weatherman" <no.weatherman@gmail.com><BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Verifies Obama's Birth Certificate<BR>> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> Message-ID:<BR>> <28a621640811011437p22bcaacavd0c87d0b2a07252d@mail.gmail.com><BR>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<BR>> <BR>> Well. That settles it.<BR>> <BR>> Two people said they saw it.<BR>> <BR>> It must be true.<BR>> <BR>> But what happened when he lost his US citizenship after Indonesia<BR>> naturalized him?<BR>> <BR>> That's the question that no one has answered.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Chasuk <chasuk@gmail.com> wrote:<BR>> > http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html?rss=hon&psp=news<BR>> ><BR>> > HONOLULU -- The state's Department of Health director on Friday<BR>> > released a statement verifying the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama<BR>> > birth certificate.<BR>> ><BR>> > The state has received multiple requests for a copy of Obama's birth<BR>> > certificate. State law does not allow officials to release the birth<BR>> > certificate of a person to someone outside of the family.<BR>> ><BR>> > There were rumors that Obama was born in Kenya, where his father is<BR>> > from. The Constitution requires that the president be a natural born<BR>> > citizen of the U.S.<BR>> ><BR>> > While many sites and news organizations have released copies provided<BR>> > by the Obama campaign, the rumors have persisted.<BR>> ><BR>> > "There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's<BR>> > official birth certificate. State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes<BR>> > ?338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to<BR>> > persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record," DOH<BR>> > Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said.<BR>> ><BR>> > "Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai'i, along<BR>> > with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to<BR>> > oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen<BR>> > and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen.<BR>> > Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state<BR>> > policies and procedures. No state official, including Governor Linda<BR>> > Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a<BR>> > manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the<BR>> > State of Hawai'i," Fukino said.<BR>> ><BR>> > Multiple lawsuits were filed to try and force Obama to provide proof<BR>> > of citizenship.<BR>> ><BR>> > =======================================================<BR>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> > =======================================================<BR>> ><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ------------------------------<BR>> <BR>> Message: 2<BR>> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 14:40:05 -0700<BR>> From: "No Weatherman" <no.weatherman@gmail.com><BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 3<BR>> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> Message-ID:<BR>> <28a621640811011440o20cc5712hb2c8c043f6698495@mail.gmail.com><BR>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<BR>> <BR>> Donald:<BR>> <BR>> MSM stands for mainstream media.<BR>> <BR>> The MSM are all those hard working news sources that have worked day<BR>> and night to tell us everything Ms Lund knows about Gov Palin while<BR>> they did nothing to inform us about Obama's two years at Columbia.<BR>> <BR>> The MSM are all those diligent investigative reporters who worked<BR>> tirelessly to discover that Gov Palin didn't have an abortion but<BR>> haven't told us Jack Shiite about Obama's Kenyan father, his homeless<BR>> brother, his illegal alien aunt, and his Communist-Sharia Law<BR>> supporter cousin-thug Odinga.<BR>> <BR>> The MSM are all those fat assed news corporations that give the thumbs<BR>> up sign to the LA Times as they sit on a video tape of Obama toasting<BR>> a former PLO terrorist as he sits next to domestic terrorists Bill<BR>> Ayers and Bernadine Dorhn.<BR>> <BR>> The MSM are those lazy reporters who camp out at Joe the Plumber's<BR>> house for four days, rifling through his trash and reporting<BR>> information that Obama operatives obtained illegally from state<BR>> sources, but who refuse to ask the hard, penetrating questions of<BR>> Obama like, "How could you sit through Jermemiah Wright's unrelenting<BR>> hate mongering for 20 years and claim that you never heard that racist<BR>> pig monger hate?"<BR>> <BR>> The MSM would be the criminally negligent fourth branch of the US<BR>> government that has an absolute obligation to exercise free speech to<BR>> expose government corruption lest they become a party to it.<BR>> <BR>> That's the mainstream media.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 10:57 AM, donald edwards<BR>> <donaledwards@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>> > Can someone tell me what "msm" stands for? I'm one of the dumber pests on<BR>> > the list and have only heard this in my life coming from Mr./Mrs./both?<BR>> > No.Man.<BR>> ><BR>> > Thanks, Don<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >> From: vision2020-request@moscow.com<BR>> >> Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 3<BR>> >> To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 06:31:39 -0700<BR>> >><BR>> >> Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to<BR>> >> vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >><BR>> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>> >> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020<BR>> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>> >> vision2020-request@moscow.com<BR>> >><BR>> >> You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>> >> vision2020-owner@moscow.com<BR>> >><BR>> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>> >> than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> Today's Topics:<BR>> >><BR>> >> 1. Re: John McCain not Born in US, But Panama (Ellen Roskovich)<BR>> >> 2. Re: We've All Misunderstood the First Amendment in the World<BR>> >> According to Palin (g. crabtree)<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> >><BR>> >> Message: 1<BR>> >> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 06:18:26 -0700<BR>> >> From: Ellen Roskovich <gussie443@hotmail.com><BR>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] John McCain not Born in US, But Panama<BR>> >> To: jeanlivingston <jeanlivingston@turbonet.com>,<BR>> >> <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >> Message-ID: <COL103-W25EE2430A0B14D30FADD37E2230@phx.gbl><BR>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> Yep. . . . that's what everyone thinks. But I also think the law might be<BR>> >> a little more complicated than that on a case by case basis. I would hope I<BR>> >> was given the correct info in London 40 years ago. . . . not that it matters<BR>> >> now because we jumped through all the hoops necessary and Kathleen has never<BR>> >> expressed any desire to run for office. Getting her very own passport for<BR>> >> the first time was an interesting experience though. . . especially when the<BR>> >> clerk at Latah County courthouse, holding a certified copy of her birth<BR>> >> issued from the archives at Washington, D.C., tells immigration in Seattle<BR>> >> that she "has no proof of citizenship".<BR>> >><BR>> >> Because this could drag on and on in a back and forth unnecessary<BR>> >> discussion, I will tell you what I was told in London right up front 40<BR>> >> years ago.<BR>> >><BR>> >> As I stated before. . . Kathleen was born in a U.S. military hospital in<BR>> >> the U.K. My first husband was in the military and at the time of her birth<BR>> >> was in Vietnam and not assigned to a base there in the U.K. Maybe the Status<BR>> >> of Forces Agreement doesn't apply in the same way in this case. Also, my<BR>> >> first husband was born outside the U.S. and was a naturalized citizen. So<BR>> >> only one of Kathleen's parents was a natural born citizen. A very serious<BR>> >> government official took me in his office and stressed the importance of me<BR>> >> understanding that my daughter's citizenship was "conditional" at this time<BR>> >> and she would have to reside in the United States for seven consecutive<BR>> >> years between the ages of 14 and 28. That's when I asked if she could ever<BR>> >> become president and I was told "no".<BR>> >><BR>> >> So that's the story in a nutshell.<BR>> >><BR>> >> And in mulling it all over I would guess McCain's dad was probably<BR>> >> assigned to duty in Panama and both his parents were natural born citizens.<BR>> >> . . . so he's good to go. And Obama was born to a natural born mother in the<BR>> >> state of Hawaii and it doesn't matter if he was dragged as a kid half-way<BR>> >> around the world and attended schools in other countries. . . he's good to<BR>> >> go. I'm sure this has been hashed out years ago by a multitude of lawyers.<BR>> >><BR>> >> So. . . . go vote. And after you vote for that one, you'll have a little<BR>> >> smile on your face because you've just exercised your right as a citizen.<BR>> >><BR>> >> Ellen A. Roskovich<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 04:34:07 -0700From: jeanlivingston@turbonet.comTo:<BR>> >> donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com; vision2020@moscow.com;<BR>> >> gussie443@hotmail.comSubject: Re: [Vision2020] John McCain not Born in US,<BR>> >> But Panama<BR>> >> Donovan's understanding accords with mine. If one of your parents was a US<BR>> >> Citizen when you were born, then you are a citizen, too, regardless of where<BR>> >> you were born.<BR>> >> Bruce Livingston<BR>> >> -----Original message-----From: Donovan Arnold<BR>> >> donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.comDate: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 01:46:01 -0700To:<BR>> >> vision2020@moscow.com, Ellen Roskovich gussie443@hotmail.comSubject: Re:<BR>> >> [Vision2020] John McCain not Born in US, But Panama> Ellen,> > As I<BR>> >> understand the law (,8 USC 1401) a person is a natural born citizen of the<BR>> >> United States if they were;> > A) Born on US soil. Any state or territory. ><BR>> >> > B) Either one of their parents was a US Citizen at the time of their birth<BR>> >> but born on foreign soil. > > A naturalized citizen is one that is not a US<BR>> >> citizen at birth. Anyone who became a citizen later on in life is not<BR>> >> allowed to be President or Vice-President. > > Best Regards,> > Donovan> ><BR>> >> --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Ellen Roskovich wrote:> > From: Ellen Roskovich ><BR>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] John McCain not Born in US, But Panama> To:<BR>> >> donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com, vision2020@moscow.com> Date: Friday, October<BR>> >> 31, 2008, 2:25 PM> > > > > #yiv2119640095 .hmmessage P> {>!<BR>> >> margin:0px;padding:0px;}> #yiv2119640095 {><BR>> >> FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;}> > I have read that since he, McCain,<BR>> >> was born in a U.S. Naval Hospital in Panama, he is considered a native born<BR>> >> citizen. . . and this is where I get a little fuzzy. Is this a new rule?<BR>> >> Because my oldest daughter was born in the U.K. at RAF Lakenheath, a U.S.<BR>> >> Airforce Hospital and when I registered her birth at the U.S. Embassy in<BR>> >> London, I asked if she could run for President and I was told "no". Of<BR>> >> course I might have had a clerk who didn't know the rules, but surely I<BR>> >> wasn't the first person to ask that question.> > Like I said. . . . I'm a<BR>> >> little fuzzy about the qualifications of that McCain guy, but last time I<BR>> >> checked, Hawaii was a state.> > Ellen A. Roskovich> > P.S. Avoid lines, vote<BR>> >> early and then spend Tuesday helping others get out to vote.> > > > > > ><BR>> >> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:06:54 -0700> From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com><BR>> >> To: vision2020@moscow.com> Subject: [Vision2020] !<BR>> >> John McCain not Born in US, But Panama> > > > > > > > John McCain was not<BR>> >> born in the US. and using Republican arguments against Obama, McCain is thus<BR>> >> not qualified to be President.> > McCain was born in Panama. > > Best<BR>> >> Regards,> > Donovan> > > > You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes<BR>> >> beyond your PC. See how<BR>> >> =======================================================> List services made<BR>> >> available by First Step Internet, > serving the communities of the Palouse<BR>> >> since 1994. > http://www.fsr.net > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >> =======================================================> > > ><BR>> >> _________________________________________________________________<BR>> >> Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive.<BR>> >><BR>> >> http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_102008<BR>> >> -------------- next part --------------<BR>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>> >> URL:<BR>> >> http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20081101/f928c5ab/attachment-0001.html<BR>> >><BR>> >> ------------------------------<BR>> >><BR>> >> Message: 2<BR>> >> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 06:31:34 -0700<BR>> >> From: "g. crabtree" <jampot@roadrunner.com><BR>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] We've All Misunderstood the First Amendment<BR>> >> in the World According to Palin<BR>> >> To: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter@yahoo.com>, "Saundra Lund"<BR>> >> <sslund_2007@verizon.net><BR>> >> Cc: 'Vision 2020' <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >> Message-ID: <C341AA6F1D694897A97B738CD0D4E8B3@gmc><BR>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>> >><BR>> >> Didn't one of our most esteemed on again, off again members make the same<BR>> >> argument?<BR>> >><BR>> >> "I worry about the V. Of course, I've been unable to post without one pest<BR>> >> or another for about two years now, but it seems that since its worked so<BR>> >> well against me, various forces have decided to try it on everyone else. I<BR>> >> lament what seems to me to be the loss of free speech in Moscow."<BR>> >><BR>> >> It appears to me that this fellow feels that his freedom of speech is<BR>> >> being denied because he can't say any damn fool thing he wants without some<BR>> >> peon who is nowhere near as smart or as cool as he is questioning him or,<BR>> >> worse yet, disagreeing. This person has informed us that he is very<BR>> >> intelligent and many of the regulars on this list have expressed their<BR>> >> concurrence. With all this in mind I should think that Mrs. Palin would be<BR>> >> promoted to at least the level of philosophy professor with all the respect<BR>> >> and deference that lofty title entails.<BR>> >><BR>> >> g<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> >> From: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter@yahoo.com><BR>> >> To: "Saundra Lund" <sslund_2007@verizon.net><BR>> >> Cc: "'Vision 2020'" <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:00 AM<BR>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] We've All Misunderstood the First Amendment in<BR>> >> the World According to Palin<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> > Criticizing someone's public statements threatens their rights?<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> > Do what you can to keep this person out of the most powerful position in<BR>> >> > the most powerful nation on earth. Please.<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> > Paul<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> > Saundra Lund wrote:<BR>> >> >> <groan><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/palin-fears-med.html<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Palin Fears Media Threaten Her First Amendment Rights<BR>> >> >> October 31, 2008 11:25 AM<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> ABC News' Steven Portnoy reports: In a conservative radio interview<BR>> >> >> that<BR>> >> >> aired in Washington, D.C. Friday morning, Republican vice presidential<BR>> >> >> nominee Gov. Sarah Palin said she fears her First Amendment rights may<BR>> >> >> be<BR>> >> >> threatened by "attacks" from reporters who suggest she is engaging in a<BR>> >> >> negative campaign against Barack Obama.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Palin told WMAL-AM that her criticism of Obama's associations, like<BR>> >> >> those<BR>> >> >> with 1960s radical Bill Ayers and the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, should not<BR>> >> >> be<BR>> >> >> considered negative attacks. Rather, for reporters or columnists to<BR>> >> >> suggest<BR>> >> >> that it is going negative may constitute an attack that threatens a<BR>> >> >> candidate's free speech rights under the Constitution, Palin said.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> "If [the media] convince enough voters that that is negative<BR>> >> >> campaigning,<BR>> >> >> for me to call Barack Obama out on his associations," Palin told host<BR>> >> >> Chris<BR>> >> >> Plante, "then I don't know what the future of our country would be in<BR>> >> >> terms<BR>> >> >> of First Amendment rights and our ability to ask questions without fear<BR>> >> >> of<BR>> >> >> attacks by the mainstream media."<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> However she feels about the way her story has been told in the press,<BR>> >> >> Palin<BR>> >> >> told WMAL she is not discouraged.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> "It's sort of perplexing to me, because I'm a practical person and<BR>> >> >> plainspoken also, but just cutting to the chase and calling things like<BR>> >> >> I<BR>> >> >> see them, just like most Americans. But this has not left a bitter<BR>> >> >> taste in<BR>> >> >> my mouth, the bitter shots taken by the mainstream media and by some of<BR>> >> >> the<BR>> >> >> elitism there in Washington," Palin said.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> "What this has left me with is a very energized and positive feeling<BR>> >> >> about<BR>> >> >> America, because there are enough Americans who are desiring the<BR>> >> >> positive<BR>> >> >> change that John McCain's gonna usher in."<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Plante then suggested that in her next sit-down interview, Palin should<BR>> >> >> tap<BR>> >> >> the reporter on the knee and ask, "So who you votin' for?"<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Palin laughed and said, "Yeah, maybe that just would say it all."<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> "I'm gonna try that," she said.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> =======================================================<BR>> >> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> >> http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> >> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> =======================================================<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> ><BR>> >> ><BR>> >> > =======================================================<BR>> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> > =======================================================<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> -------------- next part --------------<BR>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>> >> URL:<BR>> >> http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20081101/753578ea/attachment.html<BR>> >><BR>> >> ------------------------------<BR>> >><BR>> >> =======================================================<BR>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> =======================================================<BR>> >><BR>> >> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 3<BR>> >> *****************************************<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ________________________________<BR>> > You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. See how<BR>> > =======================================================<BR>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> > =======================================================<BR>> ><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ------------------------------<BR>> <BR>> Message: 3<BR>> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 14:42:30 -0700<BR>> From: "No Weatherman" <no.weatherman@gmail.com><BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2<BR>> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> Message-ID:<BR>> <28a621640811011442p153e23ewe977a3ad958a9505@mail.gmail.com><BR>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252<BR>> <BR>> The woman who knows everything has spoken again.<BR>> <BR>> I wonder how Ms. Mix would feel if Mr. Hansen posted a link to an<BR>> adult site that had a Keely Emerine Mix doll?<BR>> <BR>> The DominateMix or the Visionatrix or the Self-righteous HateMix ? she<BR>> hands out abuse to those that disagree with her and she culls those<BR>> that agree with her. She's the HystericalMix.<BR>> <BR>> Btw, all your flattering accolades aside, Mr. Hansen is still a loud<BR>> and obnoxious person who lacks decency and common sense.<BR>> <BR>> And he's a wreath of garlic for any cause he's associated with.<BR>> <BR>> So are you.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 12:28 PM, keely emerinemix <kjajmix1@msn.com> wrote:<BR>> > This community owes Tom Hansen a debt of gratitude for his tireless work in<BR>> > maintaining both "Not On The Palouse" and "Moscow Cares," two websites that<BR>> > use original-source material to document things he (and I) believe are<BR>> > problematic in our community, as well as things that are positive.<BR>> ><BR>> > Like me, Tom sometimes gets it wrong. But the man has worked harder than<BR>> > almost anyone I know to expose ministerial and other mischief, and in doing<BR>> > so, he deserves our admiration. His association with me in our common<BR>> > concerns about the Kirk gains him no fans -- and likely brings him some<BR>> > punches from a lot of sides -- but he has been nothing but kind to me and<BR>> > has nothing but good intentions for this town.<BR>> ><BR>> > The prurient harping on the Palin Toy subject says much more about the<BR>> > writer than about Tom.<BR>> ><BR>> > Keely<BR>> > http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 11:11:06 -0700<BR>> >> From: no.weatherman@gmail.com<BR>> >> To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2<BR>> >><BR>> >> Donald:<BR>> >><BR>> >> Please take an Obama chill pill or I'll arrange to throw you off the<BR>> >> plane.<BR>> >><BR>> >> First, I don't get to decide what are issues for you and you don't get<BR>> >> to decide what are issues for me.<BR>> >><BR>> >> Second, I'm not an idiot so that probably explains why the rubber doll<BR>> >> posting is NOT a non-issue to me.<BR>> >><BR>> >> Third, my continued harping on it only means that I believe it was<BR>> >> over the top by any standard and for you to suggest that it says<BR>> >> something about my own dirty mind is a non- sequitur. IOW, I could<BR>> >> argue that your post below is proof that you have a dirty mind ?<BR>> >> except that it does not follow.<BR>> >><BR>> >> Fourth, the difference between the gag toys you referenced and the<BR>> >> rubber doll that Mr. Hansen referenced is the difference between<BR>> >> inanimate objects and human beings.<BR>> >><BR>> >> Fifth, I don't know that Mr. Hansen is a community minded person. If<BR>> >> anything, I think he's a detriment to the community because of his<BR>> >> loud obnoxious mouth. He's about as friendly as a viper to those who<BR>> >> disagree with him and he's so rude in public on so many issues that I<BR>> >> believe he can single handedly sink any cause that he's publicly<BR>> >> associated with.<BR>> >><BR>> >> Sixth, my take on human decency is not a subject to question by<BR>> >> default. That's another non sequitur.<BR>> >><BR>> >> Finally, did you know that Tipper Gore founded the PMRC?<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 10:53 AM, donald edwards<BR>> >> <donaledwards@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>> >> > No man, GROW UP and get your mind out of the gutter. Have you ever heard<BR>> >> > "who smelt it dealt it"? Any idiot can see that the rubber doll posting<BR>> >> > is<BR>> >> > a non-issue but your continued harping on it as something dirty says<BR>> >> > something about your own dirty mind, not Tom's, it's a joke like fuzzy<BR>> >> > handcuffs or elephant trunk and pinochio nose briefs. We all know that<BR>> >> > Hansen is a community minded person who strives to share knowledge, and<BR>> >> > lots<BR>> >> > of humor, with those in his community. Since we don't know you, your<BR>> >> > take<BR>> >> > on human decency is subject to question by default.<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> > You're like the PMRC where the ultra-religious hear subliminal messages<BR>> >> > about the devil in metal songs written about recovery or something.<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> > Don<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> ><BR>> >> ><BR>> >> >> From: vision2020-request@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2<BR>> >> >> To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 06:13:19 -0700<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to<BR>> >> >> vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>> >> >> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020<BR>> >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>> >> >> vision2020-request@moscow.com<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>> >> >> vision2020-owner@moscow.com<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>> >> >> than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Today's Topics:<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> 1. Re: We've All Misunderstood the First Amendment in the World<BR>> >> >> According to Palin (No Weatherman)<BR>> >> >> 2. Re: John McCain not Born in US, But Panama (No Weatherman)<BR>> >> >> 3. An Urgent Communiqu? From The No Weatherman: McCain up by one<BR>> >> >> (No Weatherman)<BR>> >> >> 4. Re: Weathermen (Tom Hansen)<BR>> >> >> 5. Re: Weathermen (No Weatherman)<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Message: 1<BR>> >> >> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 08:03:29 -0400<BR>> >> >> From: "No Weatherman" <no.weatherman@gmail.com><BR>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] We've All Misunderstood the First Amendment<BR>> >> >> in the World According to Palin<BR>> >> >> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >> >> Message-ID:<BR>> >> >> <28a621640811010503p7bdc6663g7f3560bfc408d065@mail.gmail.com><BR>> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> It's the new trend in politics to license politically correct speech<BR>> >> >> and censure its antithesis.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> The trend has been there for 20 years but now the msm is leading the<BR>> >> >> way in the criticism.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Instead of acting like the fourth branch of our government, the msm is<BR>> >> >> acting like a fifth column.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> On 11/1/08, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>> >> >> > Criticizing someone's public statements threatens their rights?<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > Do what you can to keep this person out of the most powerful position<BR>> >> >> > in<BR>> >> >> > the most powerful nation on earth. Please.<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > Paul<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > Saundra Lund wrote:<BR>> >> >> > > <groan><BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/palin-fears-med.html<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > Palin Fears Media Threaten Her First Amendment Rights<BR>> >> >> > > October 31, 2008 11:25 AM<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > ABC News' Steven Portnoy reports: In a conservative radio interview<BR>> >> >> > > that<BR>> >> >> > > aired in Washington, D.C. Friday morning, Republican vice<BR>> >> >> > > presidential<BR>> >> >> > > nominee Gov. Sarah Palin said she fears her First Amendment rights<BR>> >> >> > > may<BR>> >> >> > > be<BR>> >> >> > > threatened by "attacks" from reporters who suggest she is engaging<BR>> >> >> > > in<BR>> >> >> > > a<BR>> >> >> > > negative campaign against Barack Obama.<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > Palin told WMAL-AM that her criticism of Obama's associations, like<BR>> >> >> > > those<BR>> >> >> > > with 1960s radical Bill Ayers and the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, should<BR>> >> >> > > not<BR>> >> >> > > be<BR>> >> >> > > considered negative attacks. Rather, for reporters or columnists to<BR>> >> >> > > suggest<BR>> >> >> > > that it is going negative may constitute an attack that threatens a<BR>> >> >> > > candidate's free speech rights under the Constitution, Palin said.<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > "If [the media] convince enough voters that that is negative<BR>> >> >> > > campaigning,<BR>> >> >> > > for me to call Barack Obama out on his associations," Palin told<BR>> >> >> > > host<BR>> >> >> > > Chris<BR>> >> >> > > Plante, "then I don't know what the future of our country would be<BR>> >> >> > > in<BR>> >> >> > > terms<BR>> >> >> > > of First Amendment rights and our ability to ask questions without<BR>> >> >> > > fear of<BR>> >> >> > > attacks by the mainstream media."<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > However she feels about the way her story has been told in the<BR>> >> >> > > press,<BR>> >> >> > > Palin<BR>> >> >> > > told WMAL she is not discouraged.<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > "It's sort of perplexing to me, because I'm a practical person and<BR>> >> >> > > plainspoken also, but just cutting to the chase and calling things<BR>> >> >> > > like I<BR>> >> >> > > see them, just like most Americans. But this has not left a bitter<BR>> >> >> > > taste in<BR>> >> >> > > my mouth, the bitter shots taken by the mainstream media and by<BR>> >> >> > > some<BR>> >> >> > > of the<BR>> >> >> > > elitism there in Washington," Palin said.<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > "What this has left me with is a very energized and positive<BR>> >> >> > > feeling<BR>> >> >> > > about<BR>> >> >> > > America, because there are enough Americans who are desiring the<BR>> >> >> > > positive<BR>> >> >> > > change that John McCain's gonna usher in."<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > Plante then suggested that in her next sit-down interview, Palin<BR>> >> >> > > should tap<BR>> >> >> > > the reporter on the knee and ask, "So who you votin' for?"<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > Palin laughed and said, "Yeah, maybe that just would say it all."<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > "I'm gonna try that," she said.<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > =======================================================<BR>> >> >> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >> >> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> >> > > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> >> > > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> > > =======================================================<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > =======================================================<BR>> >> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> >> > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> >> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> > =======================================================<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> ------------------------------<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Message: 2<BR>> >> >> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 08:07:46 -0400<BR>> >> >> From: "No Weatherman" <no.weatherman@gmail.com><BR>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] John McCain not Born in US, But Panama<BR>> >> >> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >> >> Message-ID:<BR>> >> >> <28a621640811010507l4c85f642t5b305caca5eb5f98@mail.gmail.com><BR>> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Donavan:<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Can someone lose their NBC status if another country that does not<BR>> >> >> allow dual citizenship (eg, Indonesia) naturalizes them?<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> If so, that person may certainly reapply for citizenship in the US,<BR>> >> >> but would such citizenship restore their "natural born citizenship"?<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> PS: If you think that McCain is not eligible to hold the office of<BR>> >> >> POTUS, then you are free to challenge him in court.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> On 11/1/08, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > Ellen,<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > As I understand the law (,8 USC 1401) a person is a natural born<BR>> >> >> > citizen<BR>> >> >> > of the United States if they were;<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > A) Born on US soil. Any state or territory.<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > B) Either one of their parents was a US Citizen at the time of their<BR>> >> >> > birth but born on foreign soil.<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > A naturalized citizen is one that is not a US citizen at birth.<BR>> >> >> > Anyone<BR>> >> >> > who became a citizen later on in life is not allowed to be President<BR>> >> >> > or<BR>> >> >> > Vice-President.<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > Best Regards,<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > Donovan<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Ellen Roskovich <gussie443@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > From: Ellen Roskovich <gussie443@hotmail.com><BR>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] John McCain not Born in US, But Panama<BR>> >> >> > To: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com, vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 2:25 PM<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > I have read that since he, McCain, was born in a U.S. Naval Hospital<BR>> >> >> > in<BR>> >> >> > Panama, he is considered a native born citizen. . . and this is where<BR>> >> >> > I get<BR>> >> >> > a little fuzzy. Is this a new rule? Because my oldest daughter was<BR>> >> >> > born in<BR>> >> >> > the U.K. at RAF Lakenheath, a U.S. Airforce Hospital and when I<BR>> >> >> > registered<BR>> >> >> > her birth at the U.S. Embassy in London, I asked if she could run for<BR>> >> >> > President and I was told "no". Of course I might have had a clerk who<BR>> >> >> > didn't<BR>> >> >> > know the rules, but surely I wasn't the first person to ask that<BR>> >> >> > question.<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > Like I said. . . . I'm a little fuzzy about the qualifications of<BR>> >> >> > that<BR>> >> >> > McCain guy, but last time I checked, Hawaii was a state.<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > Ellen A. Roskovich<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > P.S. Avoid lines, vote early and then spend Tuesday helping others<BR>> >> >> > get<BR>> >> >> > out to vote.<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > ________________________________<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> > Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:06:54 -0700<BR>> >> >> > From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<BR>> >> >> > To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> > Subject: [Vision2020] John McCain not Born in US, But Panama<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > John McCain was not born in the US. and using Republican arguments<BR>> >> >> > against Obama, McCain is thus not qualified to be President.<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > McCain was born in Panama.<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > Best Regards,<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > Donovan<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > ________________________________<BR>> >> >> You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. See<BR>> >> >> how ======================================================= List<BR>> >> >> services made available by First Step Internet, serving the<BR>> >> >> communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> >> http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> >> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> =======================================================<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > =======================================================<BR>> >> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> >> > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> >> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> > =======================================================<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> ------------------------------<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Message: 3<BR>> >> >> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 08:10:44 -0400<BR>> >> >> From: "No Weatherman" <no.weatherman@gmail.com><BR>> >> >> Subject: [Vision2020] An Urgent Communiqu? From The No Weatherman:<BR>> >> >> McCain up by one<BR>> >> >> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >> >> Message-ID:<BR>> >> >> <28a621640811010510x445c2b19q55746914371e6d6d@mail.gmail.com><BR>> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Released: 11-01-2008<BR>> >> >> Next Release: 11-02-08, 1:00AM<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> UTICA, New York ? Republican John McCain made a small gain against<BR>> >> >> Democrat Barack Obama and has pulled back within the margin of error,<BR>> >> >> now trailing Obama by five points, 49.1% to 44.1%, the latest<BR>> >> >> Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby daily tracking telephone poll shows.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Almost two days worth of the polling ? or about half of the current<BR>> >> >> sample in the three-day rolling poll of likely voters nationwide, was<BR>> >> >> conducted after Obama's 30-minute commercial aired Wednesday evening.<BR>> >> >> There is no evidence it helped him, as he has dropped 1.1 points in<BR>> >> >> the last two days, while McCain has gained 0.8 points during the same<BR>> >> >> period.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Pollster John Zogby: "Is McCain making a move? The three-day average<BR>> >> >> holds steady, but McCain outpolled Obama today, 48% to 47%. He is<BR>> >> >> beginning to cut into Obama's lead among independents, is now leading<BR>> >> >> among blue collar voters, has strengthened his lead among investors<BR>> >> >> and among men, and is walloping Obama among NASCAR voters. Joe the<BR>> >> >> Plumber may get his license after all. "Obama's lead among women<BR>> >> >> declined, and it looks like it is occurring because McCain is<BR>> >> >> solidifying the support of conservative women, which is something we<BR>> >> >> saw last time McCain picked up in the polls. If McCain has a good day<BR>> >> >> tomorrow, we will eliminate Obama's good day three days ago, and we<BR>> >> >> could really see some tightening in this rolling average. But for now,<BR>> >> >> hold on."<BR>> >> >> http://www.zogby.com/main.htm<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> ------------------------------<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Message: 4<BR>> >> >> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 12:39:26 GMT<BR>> >> >> From: Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com><BR>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Weathermen<BR>> >> >> To: <no.weatherman@gmail.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >> >> Message-ID: <200811011239.mA1CdQcH010063@mail-gw.fsr.net><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> FYI, N-'man -<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> I googled "Palin Toys".<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> End.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Tom Hansen<BR>> >> >> Moscow, Idaho<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> > Mr. Hansen:<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > When you post links to rubber dolls, most normal people automatically<BR>> >> >> > conclude that you surf rubber doll sites.<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > Am I wrong?<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com><BR>> >> >> > wrote:<BR>> >> >> > > Not that anybody gives a rat what I think, but . . .<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > As long as I have been a subscriber to Vision 2020 (several years),<BR>> >> >> > > I<BR>> >> >> do<BR>> >> >> > > not recall Joe Campbell EVER (not even once in jest) posting under<BR>> >> >> > > a<BR>> >> >> name<BR>> >> >> > > other than "Joe Campbell".<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > You may disagree with what Joe has to say (I have on a few<BR>> >> >> > > occasions),<BR>> >> >> but<BR>> >> >> > > Joe has always been a what-you-see-is-what-you-get kinda guy, all<BR>> >> >> > > under<BR>> >> >> > > one name and one name ONLY . . . Joe Campbell. And I respect him<BR>> >> >> > > very<BR>> >> >> > > much for that. He doesn't hide from anybody or anything.<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > REAL men and REAL women don't hide.<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > The type of moron that posts under a false name would cowar from<BR>> >> >> his/her<BR>> >> >> > > own shadow.<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > I realize that this posting will result in further name-calling,<BR>> >> >> > > and<BR>> >> >> maybe<BR>> >> >> > > even some commentary referring to its imagined fantasy of my<BR>> >> >> > > sexuality.<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > So be it. Eventually it will crawl back under its rock and we<BR>> >> >> > > adults<BR>> >> >> can<BR>> >> >> > > resume our discussions.<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > As the saying goes . . .<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > Even this shall come to pass.<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > Tom Hansen<BR>> >> >> > > Moscow, Idaho<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > >> A few things before I go back to my life off Vision 2020.<BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >> First, I am not Gabe Storm. I'm not quite sure why No Weatherman<BR>> >> >> > >> hates<BR>> >> >> > >> me so much, why he likes spreading lies about me, but there<BR>> >> >> > >> doesn't<BR>> >> >> seem<BR>> >> >> > >> to be much I can do about that. Remember he first entered the<BR>> >> >> > >> scene<BR>> >> >> when<BR>> >> >> > >> he hounded me and it is interesting that he's doing the same thing<BR>> >> >> > >> to<BR>> >> >> > >> everyone else, which is why I'm not the only leaving the V.<BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >> Second, I apologize for saying that I thought that No Weatherman<BR>> >> >> > >> was<BR>> >> >> > >> a<BR>> >> >> > >> Kirk, since it seems pretty clear to me now that he's not. I was<BR>> >> >> > >> wrong<BR>> >> >> > >> to make this assertion. Say what you want about them but I don't<BR>> >> >> > >> know<BR>> >> >> of<BR>> >> >> > >> many Kirk's who are willing to throw their wives "under the bus."<BR>> >> >> > >> I<BR>> >> >> > >> think, in fact, it is pretty clear that No Weatherman and Gabe<BR>> >> >> > >> Storm<BR>> >> >> are<BR>> >> >> > >> the same person, and that he is just gearing up for his<BR>> >> >> > >> post-election<BR>> >> >> > >> life where, instead of hearing rumors and insults about Obama,<BR>> >> >> > >> we're<BR>> >> >> > >> going to be hearing rumors and insults about the Kirk.<BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >> I had an unfortunate correspondence with a young troll a few years<BR>> >> >> back,<BR>> >> >> > >> which started with an unpleasant exchange about capital punishment<BR>> >> >> > >> and<BR>> >> >> > >> moved to some off-line threats from young troll toward me. I<BR>> >> >> > >> accused<BR>> >> >> him<BR>> >> >> > >> of being a Kirk and he got very offended. All I know about him is<BR>> >> >> > >> that<BR>> >> >> > >> he is young and his folks go to, or went to the Unitarian church.<BR>> >> >> > >> Not<BR>> >> >> > >> much to go on but if this rings a bell, please contact me<BR>> >> >> > >> off-list.<BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >> Also, since I fear a long winter with more crazy talk from Gabe<BR>> >> >> > >> Storm,<BR>> >> >> > >> followed by accusations that he and I are one and the same, I'm<BR>> >> >> > >> trying<BR>> >> >> > >> to prepare. Does anyone know if this kind of stuff constitutes<BR>> >> >> > >> defamation, if I have any legal recourse, and if I do, does anyone<BR>> >> >> know<BR>> >> >> > >> of a good lawyer whom I might contact for advice? I'm going to try<BR>> >> >> > >> to<BR>> >> >> > >> contact some folks at WSU, since it seems that any defamation<BR>> >> >> > >> against<BR>> >> >> me<BR>> >> >> > >> is bad for them, as well. Perhaps I can find some assistance<BR>> >> >> > >> there.<BR>> >> >> But<BR>> >> >> > >> my guess is that nothing can be done. I'd love for someone to<BR>> >> >> > >> prove<BR>> >> >> > >> me<BR>> >> >> > >> wrong!<BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >> I worry about the V. Of course, I've been unable to post without<BR>> >> >> > >> one<BR>> >> >> > >> pest or another for about two years now, but it seems that since<BR>> >> >> > >> its<BR>> >> >> > >> worked so well against me, various forces have decided to try it<BR>> >> >> > >> on<BR>> >> >> > >> everyone else. I lament what seems to me to be the loss of free<BR>> >> >> > >> speech<BR>> >> >> > >> in Moscow.<BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >> Best, Joe<BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > >><BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > ---------------------------------------------<BR>> >> >> > > This message was sent by First Step Internet.<BR>> >> >> > > http://www.fsr.com/<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> > > =======================================================<BR>> >> >> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >> >> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> >> > > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> >> > > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> > > =======================================================<BR>> >> >> > ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > =======================================================<BR>> >> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> >> > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> >> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> > =======================================================<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> "Jesus was a community organizer and Poncius Pilate was a governor."<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> - Marilyn Trail, sister of Representative Tom trail (September 8, 2008)<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> ----<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college<BR>> >> >> students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> ---------------------------------------------<BR>> >> >> This message was sent by First Step Internet.<BR>> >> >> http://www.fsr.com/<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> ------------------------------<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Message: 5<BR>> >> >> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 06:13:17 -0700<BR>> >> >> From: "No Weatherman" <no.weatherman@gmail.com><BR>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Weathermen<BR>> >> >> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> >> >> Message-ID:<BR>> >> >> <28a621640811010613n1e25f64eha7597649403df08f@mail.gmail.com><BR>> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Mr. Hansen:<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> For the record, I really don't believe you because you wouldn't have<BR>> >> >> to posted a link to an adult site unless you felt comfortable in that<BR>> >> >> environment.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> I said you lack decency and common sense and you have done nothing to<BR>> >> >> change my mind.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> If you don't want people (eg, me) to think that you don't tinker with<BR>> >> >> rubber dolls, then you shouldn't post links to rubber doll sites.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> It's a simple matter of decency.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 5:39 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com> wrote:<BR>> >> >> > FYI, N-'man -<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > I googled "Palin Toys".<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > End.<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > Tom Hansen<BR>> >> >> > Moscow, Idaho<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> Mr. Hansen:<BR>> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> When you post links to rubber dolls, most normal people<BR>> >> >> >> automatically<BR>> >> >> >> conclude that you surf rubber doll sites.<BR>> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> Am I wrong?<BR>> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com><BR>> >> >> >> wrote:<BR>> >> >> >> > Not that anybody gives a rat what I think, but . . .<BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> > As long as I have been a subscriber to Vision 2020 (several<BR>> >> >> >> > years), I<BR>> >> >> > do<BR>> >> >> >> > not recall Joe Campbell EVER (not even once in jest) posting under<BR>> >> >> >> > a<BR>> >> >> > name<BR>> >> >> >> > other than "Joe Campbell".<BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> > You may disagree with what Joe has to say (I have on a few<BR>> >> >> >> > occasions),<BR>> >> >> > but<BR>> >> >> >> > Joe has always been a what-you-see-is-what-you-get kinda guy, all<BR>> >> >> >> > under<BR>> >> >> >> > one name and one name ONLY . . . Joe Campbell. And I respect him<BR>> >> >> >> > very<BR>> >> >> >> > much for that. He doesn't hide from anybody or anything.<BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> > REAL men and REAL women don't hide.<BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> > The type of moron that posts under a false name would cowar from<BR>> >> >> > his/her<BR>> >> >> >> > own shadow.<BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> > I realize that this posting will result in further name-calling,<BR>> >> >> >> > and<BR>> >> >> > maybe<BR>> >> >> >> > even some commentary referring to its imagined fantasy of my<BR>> >> >> >> > sexuality.<BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> > So be it. Eventually it will crawl back under its rock and we<BR>> >> >> >> > adults<BR>> >> >> > can<BR>> >> >> >> > resume our discussions.<BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> > As the saying goes . . .<BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> > Even this shall come to pass.<BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> > Tom Hansen<BR>> >> >> >> > Moscow, Idaho<BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> >> A few things before I go back to my life off Vision 2020.<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> First, I am not Gabe Storm. I'm not quite sure why No Weatherman<BR>> >> >> >> >> hates<BR>> >> >> >> >> me so much, why he likes spreading lies about me, but there<BR>> >> >> >> >> doesn't<BR>> >> >> > seem<BR>> >> >> >> >> to be much I can do about that. Remember he first entered the<BR>> >> >> >> >> scene<BR>> >> >> > when<BR>> >> >> >> >> he hounded me and it is interesting that he's doing the same<BR>> >> >> >> >> thing<BR>> >> >> >> >> to<BR>> >> >> >> >> everyone else, which is why I'm not the only leaving the V.<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> Second, I apologize for saying that I thought that No Weatherman<BR>> >> >> >> >> was<BR>> >> >> >> >> a<BR>> >> >> >> >> Kirk, since it seems pretty clear to me now that he's not. I was<BR>> >> >> >> >> wrong<BR>> >> >> >> >> to make this assertion. Say what you want about them but I don't<BR>> >> >> >> >> know<BR>> >> >> > of<BR>> >> >> >> >> many Kirk's who are willing to throw their wives "under the bus."<BR>> >> >> >> >> I<BR>> >> >> >> >> think, in fact, it is pretty clear that No Weatherman and Gabe<BR>> >> >> >> >> Storm<BR>> >> >> > are<BR>> >> >> >> >> the same person, and that he is just gearing up for his<BR>> >> >> >> >> post-election<BR>> >> >> >> >> life where, instead of hearing rumors and insults about Obama,<BR>> >> >> >> >> we're<BR>> >> >> >> >> going to be hearing rumors and insults about the Kirk.<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> I had an unfortunate correspondence with a young troll a few<BR>> >> >> >> >> years<BR>> >> >> > back,<BR>> >> >> >> >> which started with an unpleasant exchange about capital<BR>> >> >> >> >> punishment<BR>> >> >> >> >> and<BR>> >> >> >> >> moved to some off-line threats from young troll toward me. I<BR>> >> >> >> >> accused<BR>> >> >> > him<BR>> >> >> >> >> of being a Kirk and he got very offended. All I know about him is<BR>> >> >> >> >> that<BR>> >> >> >> >> he is young and his folks go to, or went to the Unitarian church.<BR>> >> >> >> >> Not<BR>> >> >> >> >> much to go on but if this rings a bell, please contact me<BR>> >> >> >> >> off-list.<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> Also, since I fear a long winter with more crazy talk from Gabe<BR>> >> >> >> >> Storm,<BR>> >> >> >> >> followed by accusations that he and I are one and the same, I'm<BR>> >> >> >> >> trying<BR>> >> >> >> >> to prepare. Does anyone know if this kind of stuff constitutes<BR>> >> >> >> >> defamation, if I have any legal recourse, and if I do, does<BR>> >> >> >> >> anyone<BR>> >> >> > know<BR>> >> >> >> >> of a good lawyer whom I might contact for advice? I'm going to<BR>> >> >> >> >> try<BR>> >> >> >> >> to<BR>> >> >> >> >> contact some folks at WSU, since it seems that any defamation<BR>> >> >> >> >> against<BR>> >> >> > me<BR>> >> >> >> >> is bad for them, as well. Perhaps I can find some assistance<BR>> >> >> >> >> there.<BR>> >> >> > But<BR>> >> >> >> >> my guess is that nothing can be done. I'd love for someone to<BR>> >> >> >> >> prove<BR>> >> >> >> >> me<BR>> >> >> >> >> wrong!<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> I worry about the V. Of course, I've been unable to post without<BR>> >> >> >> >> one<BR>> >> >> >> >> pest or another for about two years now, but it seems that since<BR>> >> >> >> >> its<BR>> >> >> >> >> worked so well against me, various forces have decided to try it<BR>> >> >> >> >> on<BR>> >> >> >> >> everyone else. I lament what seems to me to be the loss of free<BR>> >> >> >> >> speech<BR>> >> >> >> >> in Moscow.<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >> Best, Joe<BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------<BR>> >> >> >> > This message was sent by First Step Internet.<BR>> >> >> >> > http://www.fsr.com/<BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >> > =======================================================<BR>> >> >> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >> >> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> >> >> > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> >> >> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> >> > =======================================================<BR>> >> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> >> =======================================================<BR>> >> >> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >> >> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> >> >> http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> >> >> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> >> =======================================================<BR>> >> >> >><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > "Jesus was a community organizer and Poncius Pilate was a governor."<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > - Marilyn Trail, sister of Representative Tom trail (September 8,<BR>> >> >> > 2008)<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > ----<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The<BR>> >> >> > college<BR>> >> >> > students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------<BR>> >> >> > This message was sent by First Step Internet.<BR>> >> >> > http://www.fsr.com/<BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >> ><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> ------------------------------<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> =======================================================<BR>> >> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> >> http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> >> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> >> =======================================================<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2<BR>> >> >> *****************************************<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> ><BR>> >> > ________________________________<BR>> >> > Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. Start<BR>> >> > uploading now<BR>> >> > =======================================================<BR>> >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> > http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> > =======================================================<BR>> >> ><BR>> >><BR>> >> =======================================================<BR>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >> http://www.fsr.net<BR>> >> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >> =======================================================<BR>> ><BR>> > ________________________________<BR>> > When your life is on the go?take your life with you. Try Windows Mobile(R)<BR>> > today<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ------------------------------<BR>> <BR>> =======================================================<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> http://www.fsr.net <BR>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> =======================================================<BR>> <BR>> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 13<BR>> ******************************************<BR><BR><br /><hr />When your life is on the go—take your life with you. <a href='http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/' target='_new'>Try Windows Mobile® today</a></body>
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