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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi
Sunil,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I
agree with you, however . . . <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If
Roger thinks an acceptable distinction is adulthood vs childhood associations,
then he should rightly start discussing McCain’s unsavory and/or unethical
adult associations. Lord knows there’s enough there to keep us all
busy for a very long time </span><span style='font-family:Wingdings;
color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And,
perhaps we should all be discussing McCain’s adult behavior no matter how
long ago it was. Given his adult age, there’s a heck of a lot there
McCain would rather not have dug up . . . again.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Of
course, I prefer to focus on <b>issues</b>, but if that’s the game Roger
wants to play, then I’m sure we can trust that he’ll start in on
McCain.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Otherwise,
his complaints about Obama’s adult associations are empty.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Saundra Lund<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Moscow, ID<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good
people to do nothing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>~ Edmund Burke<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2008
through life plus 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt,
or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum without the express written
permission of the author.*****<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Sunil Ramalingam<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 27, 2008 1:08 PM<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Vision 2020<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] A Plea to Saundra Lund<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>I
disagree completely, Roger. It's malarkey to make an issue out of it now,
given that Obama's association with Ayers is completely removed from the
activities that lead to people labeling Ayers a 'terrorist.' <br>
<br>
If they were planning the present-day bombing of buildings, then it would be an
issue.<br>
<br>
Sunil<br>
<br>
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:24:37 -0700<br>
> From: lfalen@turbonet.com<br>
> To: godshatter@yahoo.com; no.weatherman@gmail.com<br>
> CC: vision2020@moscow.com<br>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Plea to Saundra Lund<br>
> <br>
> Paul<br>
> Forget the 8 years old malarkey. The point is, his associate with him when
he was an adult.<br>
> Roger<br>
> -----Original message-----<br>
> From: Paul Rumelhart godshatter@yahoo.com<br>
> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:05:28 -0700<br>
> To: No Weatherman no.weatherman@gmail.com<br>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Plea to Saundra Lund<br>
> <br>
> > So what is your thesis, here? That Barack Obama is a closet domestic <br>
> > terrorist? That he wants to take down the government from the top <br>
> > down? That he wants to open our defenses and invite the terrorists in
<br>
> > to trash our country as they please? I don't get what the
implications <br>
> > are of Obama knowing someone else who was a "domestic
terrorist" when <br>
> > Obama was eight years old.<br>
> > <br>
> > What's the actual point you're trying to make?<br>
> > <br>
> > Paul<br>
> > <br>
> > No Weatherman wrote:<br>
> > > Ms. Lund:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > I made it clear from the beginning that I had only one objective
in<br>
> > > this exercise — to force the question of Barack Obama's
long-standing<br>
> > > personal and professional relationship with domestic terrorists.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Joe Campbell accused my of making a "guilt by
association" argument<br>
> > > while he pronounced me "guilty by association" because
of his<br>
> > > delusional perception that I belong to a local church. He called
me a<br>
> > > "neo-Nazi" even though I have decried anti-Semitism
with every other<br>
> > > post or so.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > My objective changed early on when the name calling began in
concert<br>
> > > with the continued gang banging of Gov Palin. Now I consider
myself<br>
> > > balance to your catty, shrill, dishonest, disingenuous, and<br>
> > > discombobulated and hormonally imbalanced posts as well as Mr.<br>
> > > Hansen's and Dr. Gier's.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > You now claim that you object to the "***quantity***"
of my posts. But<br>
> > > this was not the case last month when you wrote this literary<br>
> > > masterpiece:<br>
> > ><br>
> > >
http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2008-October/057066.html<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Let's see, you called me a "monster," a "racist
monster . . . puffed<br>
> > > with pathetic notions of grandiosity." You called me a
"troll," a<br>
> > > "piece of moral slime properly to be shunned by all decent
people."<br>
> > > You declared that shunning me was a religious duty of yours lest
you<br>
> > > be "bad Samaritans" who add to my "hate-mongering
propensities."<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Funny, though, you never mentioned the
"***quantity***" of my posts.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Personally, I think you're unhinged by Palin envy though I would
not<br>
> > > begin to speculate why.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > They say that friends don't let friends drive drunk. You seem to
me to<br>
> > > be inebriated by hate for Palin. If I was your friend I'd pull
you off<br>
> > > the road ASAP before you end up hurting yourself.<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Saundra Lund <sslund_2007@verizon.net>
wrote:<br>
> > > <br>
> > >> Roger,<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> I think you're completely wrong on this. I think what Tom
and many, many,<br>
> > >> many other forum members really object to is the
***quantity*** of the<br>
> > >> troll's posts. The anonymous coward made it clear from the
beginning that<br>
> > >> he wasn't interested in honest dialogue or debate but rather
in simply<br>
> > >> hurling invective and insulting those who disagree with him.
When someone<br>
> > >> pointed out to him that the convention in the V2020 living
room was to try<br>
> > >> to limit posts to 2-3 per day, he said he'd post as much as
he wanted. And,<br>
> > >> he's proceeded to do so: just in October, he's posted OVER
THREE HUNDRED<br>
> > >> TIMES. Get a clue: he's nothing more than a cowardly rude
troll with an<br>
> > >> agenda to disrupt and destroy this forum with his invective.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> While I refuse to interact with nameless cowards, I also
refuse to allow<br>
> > >> this troll to turn this COMMUNITY forum into his own
one-sided playground.<br>
> > >> Only when it became undeniable that the troll has absolutely
no respect for<br>
> > >> the way the V2020 community works did I start standing up to
the bully by<br>
> > >> posting news from the other side, and even then, my
"count" is still way<br>
> > >> under a hundred for this month -- and barely over a daily
average of three<br>
> > >> posts per day. And, I'll add that I've received more than a
few offlist<br>
> > >> responses from folks all along the political spectrum
thanking me for the<br>
> > >> articles I've been posting in response to the troll's
firestorm.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> I see your subsequent post where you suggest that people
apply Donovan's<br>
> > >> (joking or not) suggestion about dealing with the troll's
record posting<br>
> > >> frequency by doing the same to me. Shame on you, Roger --
you've been<br>
> > >> around here long enough to know that I am a genuine
participant who has<br>
> > >> posted according to our "on our honor" posting
guidelines for years now.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> I do find it telling that you once again come out in defense
of those with<br>
> > >> whom you agree while ignoring their multitude transgressions
and insults<br>
> > >> against those with whom you disagree.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> So, what -- if any -- suggestions do you have to deal with
trolls like the<br>
> > >> one trick pony No Weatherman's attempts to take over this
forum for his own<br>
> > >> anti-Obama agenda by posting OVER THREE HUNDRED TIMES in
fewer than 20 days?<br>
> > >> He's drowning out legitimate conversation and driving away
list members and<br>
> > >> their participation in this COMMUNITY forum, which is
indisputably one of<br>
> > >> his goals.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> Yes, you're completely wrong Roger -- those of us who object
to the cowardly<br>
> > >> anonymous troll's attempt to take over this forum would be
just as<br>
> > >> frustrated by the volume regardless of the topic or
political direction.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >><br>
> > >> Saundra Lund<br>
> > >> Moscow, ID<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good
people to do<br>
> > >> nothing.<br>
> > >> ~ Edmund Burke<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2008
through life plus<br>
> > >> 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or
reproduce outside<br>
> > >> the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission
of the<br>
> > >> author.*****<br>
> > >><br>
> > >><br>
> > >> -----Original Message-----<br>
> > >> From: vision2020-bounces@moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com]<br>
> > >> On Behalf Of lfalen<br>
> > >> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:09 AM<br>
> > >> To: No Weatherman; vision2020@moscow.com<br>
> > >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Plea to Visionaires<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> Tom apparently only wants left wing views to be aired.
Anything else is<br>
> > >> racist and profane. I would like Ton to demonstrate where No
Wheathermans<br>
> > >> posts have been any more objectionable than some of his. I
submit that they<br>
> > >> are objectionable and profane because he disagrees with the
veiws<br>
> > >> expressed. No Wheatherman seems to me to do a petty good job
of<br>
> > >> documentation when listing facts. Everyone have the right to
an<br>
> > >> opinion(within reason) without documentation as long as it
not presented as<br>
> > >> fact.<br>
> > >> Roger<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> =======================================================<br>
> > >> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
> > >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
> > >> http://www.fsr.net<br>
> > >> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>
> > >> =======================================================<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> <br>
> > ><br>
> > > =======================================================<br>
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>
> > > http://www.fsr.net <br>
> > > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>
> > > =======================================================<br>
> > ><br>
> > > <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > =======================================================<br>
> > List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>
> > http://www.fsr.net <br>
> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>
> > =======================================================<br>
> > <br>
> <br>
> =======================================================<br>
> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>
> http://www.fsr.net <br>
> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>
> =======================================================<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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