<p>changing the subject line, and AMEN!</p><p><br />-----Original message-----<br />From: Steven Basoa sbasoa@moscow.com<br />Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2008 15:45:07 -0700<br />To: Vision 2020 vision2020@moscow.com<br />Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An Obama Dilemma<br /><br />> This is a plea on the behalf of the other 3 or 4 hundred of us on <br />> this list whose delete-button fingers are getting extremely worn <br />> out. Will you people please stop with this asinine thread. You all <br />> know what a troll is and you also know that a troll thrives on people <br />> responding to his/hers/it's posts. So maybe, just maybe, if you all <br />> stop responding to this troll, it will go away. Or maybe, if "NW" <br />> really wants people to take it's message seriously, then it will grow <br />> up and start posting with it's real name (haha, I am so funny). "NW" <br />> won't post under it's real name because it and it's buddies in the <b!
r />>
back room are having a great laugh at your expense. The troll baits <br />> and you all jump at the line. Every time. Especially you Joe C. <br />> Won't you realize that it has purposely targeted you because you grab <br />> hold of that line and won't let go? It doesn't matter how much money <br />> you offer to meet it in a public place. Trolls live and thrive in <br />> muck and feces and excel at throwing it about. Money means nothing <br />> to them. This troll baits you so well that the best thing I can say <br />> about NW is that it is a master baiter. You respond, it spews. Once <br />> you all figure this fact out and start ignoring NW's posts, you just <br />> might find that you have more time for the finer things in life. And <br />> the rest of us might start getting some feeling back in our delete- <br />> key fingers.<br />> <br />> And no GC, before you ask, I'm not trying to be the "conversation <br />> monito!
r",
I'm just trying to get the maturity level of this forum out <br />> of the gutter and back up to at least a juvenile level.<br />> <br />> Sardonically yours,<br />> Joe Bob Whatever<br />> <br />> (PS: I know, I know: delete, delete, delete...)<br />> <br />> (PPS: Carl, Angelina called. She wants to have dinner with you on <br />> the second tuesday of next week.)<br />> <br />> SB<br />> <br />> <br />> On Oct 4, 2008, at 11:33 AM, <joekc@roadrunner.com />wrote:<br />> <br />> I'll play for one minute but I really am busy today.<br />> <br />> Remind me again of argument (A) and tell me the fallacy that you <br />> think I committed. I'm curious.<br />> <br />> This is not a condition but please tell me why you don't want to <br />> collect an easy $100. Honestly,<br />> I'm interested in knowing why you could possibly want to hide your <br />> identity unless my assumptions<br />> are correct. I'm!
looking
for one reason and you owe it to others to <br />> give it if we're to take you seriously. Again if you want to ignore <br />> this and just reply to the first question, I'll play a bit longer.<br />> But I feel like a bit of a fool, in all honesty, so I won't play long.<br />> <br />> --<br />> Joe Campbell<br />> <br />> ---- No Weatherman <no.weatherman@gmail.com />wrote:<br />> > Dr. Campbell,<br />> ><br />> > I applaud you for changing the subject and I will applaud you even<br />> > more if you (A) answer my question or (B) identify for this forum the<br />> > fallacy you committed.<br />> ><br />> ><br />> ><br />> > On 10/4/08, joekc@roadrunner.com <joekc@roadrunner.com />wrote:<br />> >> This is evidence that I'm not reading your posts very carefully, <br />> >> nothing more.<br />> >><br />> >> I'll give you $100 to have lunch with me today. If not, yo!
u set <br
/>> >> the time and place. You won't do it.<br />> >> Am I supposed to act like this is not evidence that you are <br />> >> afraid to let folks know who you are?<br />> >> Am I supposed to pretend that this is not relevant information to <br />> >> the issue at hand? Should I<br />> >> ignore it? Why on earth would someone forgo an easy $100 and the <br />> >> chance of proving me wrong?<br />> >><br />> >> Try explaining that and maybe people will listen to you.<br />> >><br />> >><br />> >> --<br />> >> Joe Campbell<br />> >><br />> >> ---- No Weatherman <no.weatherman@gmail.com />wrote:<br />> >>> Dr. Campbell,<br />> >>><br />> >>> Actually, you asked several questions but here is how I answered <br />> >>> this<br />> >>> particular question the first time:<br />> >>&g!
t;<br
/>> >>> "I am in the country and I sincerely appreciate the offer but I'll<br />> >>> take a rain check. Now, what fallacy, if any, are you committing <br />> >>> when<br />> >>> you infer a false conclusion from my answer?"<br />> >>><br />> >>> Hopefully, this will satisfy you.<br />> >>><br />> >>> Now, you have not answered my question: Did you, or did you not<br />> >>> describe your "as far as I can tell" "reasoned opinion" as a "fact"?<br />> >>><br />> >>> I hope your schedule is not so busy that cannot give an honest <br />> >>> answer<br />> >>> to this question because in answering it truthfully, you can <br />> >>> begin to<br />> >>> deconstruct the straw man you've been struggling with.<br />> >>><br />> >>><br />>
>>><br />> >>> On 10/4/08, joekc@roadrunner.com <joekc@roadrunner.com />wrote:<br />> >>>> I'm sorry but I'm having a hard time understanding this as a <br />> >>>> response to my last question, so I'll<br />> >>>> be more direct.<br />> >>>><br />> >>>> Do you want to have lunch today or not? I'll treat. If you <br />> >>>> can't make it, I understand. You respect<br />> >>>> me so why not sit down with me for lunch and we can talk this <br />> >>>> all out. If you convince me that<br />> >>>> you are not either a critic of Christ Church or affiliated with <br />> >>>> Christ Church, I'll issue an apology.<br />> >>>><br />> >>>> I have a busy schedule today. I need to know asap. If you can't <br />> >>>> make it, just let me know.<br />> >>>><br !
/>>
>>>><br />> >>>> --<br />> >>>> Joe Campbell<br />> >>>><br />> >>>> ---- No Weatherman <no.weatherman@gmail.com />wrote:<br />> >>>>> "This is really a silly game. Below is just another bad <br />> >>>>> argument. Some<br />> >>>>> of your opinions are facts and some not and it is doubtful that <br />> >>>>> you<br />> >>>>> are the best judge about which is which."<br />> >>>>><br />> >>>>> I noted your fallacies and you call it "silly" and "another bad<br />> >>>>> argument." I wonder what the technical name for that one is.<br />> >>>>><br />> >>>>> "Also, why should I answer your questions if you don't answer <br />> >>>>> mine?<br />> >>>>> That's not
fair."<br />> >>>>><br />> >>>>> I caught you equivocating, or having it both ways, with the word<br />> >>>>> "fact" and when I called you on it, you ignored my question and<br />> >>>>> proceeded to ask me a string of loaded questions. If this is <br />> >>>>> not true,<br />> >>>>> please show me where I'm wrong. Otherwise, don't complain about <br />> >>>>> "fair"<br />> >>>>> to me.<br />> >>>>><br />> >>>>> "And why are you so upset about this? If you are not either a <br />> >>>>> critic<br />> >>>>> of Christ Church or affiliated with Christ Church, why would it <br />> >>>>> bother<br />> >>>>> you that someone thought that you were?"<br />> >>>>><br />>
>>>>> I am not the least bit upset, I am not bothered at all, and you <br />> >>>>> cannot<br />> >>>>> produce any evidence to the contrary. However, I can produce <br />> >>>>> several<br />> >>>>> posts written by you, Ms. Mix, Ms. Lund, and Mr. Hanson where <br />> >>>>> you four<br />> >>>>> have been extremely upset and bothered. You are projecting your <br />> >>>>> traits<br />> >>>>> on me.<br />> >>>>><br />> >>>>> "I must say if you are trying to prove that you're not, you are <br />> >>>>> doing<br />> >>>>> a very bad job. Not nearly as bad as your case against Obama <br />> >>>>> but still<br />> >>>>> pretty bad. And it is silly indeed since you could prove your <br />> >>>>>!
point<br
/>> >>>>> easily by using your real name, or meeting me for lunch later <br />> >>>>> today.<br />> >>>>> I'll treat! Of course, if you can't since you're, say, out of the<br />> >>>>> country, that would explain a lot!"<br />> >>>>><br />> >>>>> I am in the country and I sincerely appreciate the offer but <br />> >>>>> I'll take<br />> >>>>> a rain check. Now, what fallacy, if any, are you committing <br />> >>>>> when you<br />> >>>>> infer a false conclusion from my answer?<br />> >>>>><br />> >>>>> "Anyway, if you won't use your name or meet me for lunch, I'll <br />> >>>>> have to<br />> >>>>> go back to trying to ignore you. Not that I'm very good at it <br />> >>>>> but I'll<br />>
>>>>> try to be better!"<br />> >>>>><br />> >>>>> You're very good at misquoting me and misrepresenting me, and <br />> >>>>> you're<br />> >>>>> even better at evading responsibility for your dishonest <br />> >>>>> statements.<br />> >>>>> But I'm struggling with all those posts that you wrote <br />> >>>>> insisting that<br />> >>>>> you never read a word I wrote, yet, now, suddenly and <br />> >>>>> miraculously,<br />> >>>>> you have the uncanny ability as a trained logician to describe the<br />> >>>>> previously and until-now ignored posts as full of "fallacy after<br />> >>>>> fallacy."<br />> >>>>><br />> >>>>> Rather than ignoring me, I would appreciate it if you actually <br />>
>>>>> tried<br />> >>>>> to engage me — or better yet, engage my one single point that <br />> >>>>> has thus<br />> >>>>> far gone unnoticed by the handful of extremely vocal Obama <br />> >>>>> supporters<br />> >>>>> on this list.<br />> >>>>><br />> >>>>> Barrack Hussein Obama is 47 years old but 20 of his years are a<br />> >>>>> complete mystery to America. In the modern history of the US <br />> >>>>> the press<br />> >>>>> has never given any candidate such a pass as they have given <br />> >>>>> Obama,<br />> >>>>> and yet none of the Obama supporters on this list appear the <br />> >>>>> least bit<br />> >>>>> bothered by these facts.<br />> >>>>><br />> >>>>> Since!
I
originally engaged you, I have had one question in <br />> >>>>> mind: How<br />> >>>>> do you account for this, Dr. Campbell?<br />> >>>>><br />> >>>>><br />> >>>>> On 10/4/08, joekc@roadrunner.com <joekc@roadrunner.com />wrote:<br />> >>>>>> This is really a silly game. Below is just another bad <br />> >>>>>> argument. Some of your opinions are facts<br />> >>>>>> and some not and it is doubtful that you are the best judge <br />> >>>>>> about which is which.<br />> >>>>>><br />> >>>>>> Also, why should I answer your questions if you don't answer <br />> >>>>>> mine? That's not fair.<br />> >>>>>><br />> >>>>>> And why are you so upset about this? If you are not either a <br />> >>>>!
>>
critic of Christ Church or<br />> >>>>>> affiliated with Christ Church, why would it bother you that <br />> >>>>>> someone thought that you were?<br />> >>>>>><br />> >>>>>> I must say if you are trying to prove that you're not, you <br />> >>>>>> are doing a very bad job. Not nearly as<br />> >>>>>> bad as your case against Obama but still pretty bad. And it <br />> >>>>>> is silly indeed since you could prove<br />> >>>>>> your point easily by using your real name, or meeting me for <br />> >>>>>> lunch later today. I'll treat!<br />> >>>>>> Of course, if you can't since you're, say, out of the <br />> >>>>>> country, that would explain a lot!<br />> >>>>>><br />> >>>>>> Anyway, if you won't use your nam!
e or meet
me for lunch, I'll <br />> >>>>>> have to go back to trying to ignore<br />> >>>>>> you. Not that I'm very good at it but I'll try to be better!<br />> >>>>>><br />> >>>>>><br />> >>>>>> --<br />> >>>>>> Joe Campbell<br />> >>>>>><br />> >>>>>> ---- No Weatherman <no.weatherman@gmail.com />wrote:<br />> >>>>>>> I read your words very carefully, because you concluded by <br />> >>>>>>> jumping<br />> >>>>>>> from "as far as I can tell" to "isn't this FACT telling?"<br />> >>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>> As far as I can tell you concluded by calling it a "fact." Is my<br />> >>>>>>> reasoned opinion wrong, good Doctor?<br />>
>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>> On 10/4/08, joekc@roadrunner.com <joekc@roadrunner.com />wrote:<br />> >>>>>>>> I said as far as I can tell, it is a reflection of my own <br />> >>>>>>>> reasoned opinion. And I said anonymous<br />> >>>>>>>> posters are either supporters or critics. Please read my <br />> >>>>>>>> words more carefully.<br />> >>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>> And that conclusion follows with a good deal more certainty <br />> >>>>>>>> than any of your conclusions about<br />> >>>>>>>> Obama, which are all -- everyone of them -- based on <br />> >>>>>>>> fallacies.<br />> >>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>> What r!
eason is
there for your curious double-standard, that <br />> >>>>>>>> I need to prove my claims yet you can<br />> >>>>>>>> make any reckless statement you want without a hint of real <br />> >>>>>>>> support?<br />> >>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>> And why not deny the allegation if you thought I made it <br />> >>>>>>>> and it is false. You are curious indeed!<br />> >>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>> And as others have asked time and time again, what possible <br />> >>>>>>>> reason is there for you to post<br />> >>>>>>>> anonymously if you are not trying to hide some affiliation? <br />> >>>>>>>> Use your real name and I'll be done.<br />> >>>>>>>><br />>
>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>> --<br />> >>>>>>>> Joe Campbell<br />> >>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>> ---- No Weatherman <no.weatherman@gmail.com />wrote:<br />> >>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>> AHA!<br />> >>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>> What evidence can Dr. Campbell produce to show that I am <br />> >>>>>>>>> either a folk<br />> >>>>>>>>> of Christ Church or a critic of Christ Church?<br />> >>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>> Some of you would do well to answer this question and do <br />> >>>>>>>>> some self-examination.<br />> >>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>&g!
t;<br
/>> >>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>> On 10/4/08, joekc@roadrunner.com <joekc@roadrunner.com />wrote:<br />> >>>>>>>>>> What evidence is there that the five noted by Gary below <br />> >>>>>>>>>> are "left wing"? In fact, what they all<br />> >>>>>>>>>> have in common is that they were critics of Christ <br />> >>>>>>>>>> Church. That is it.<br />> >>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>> So the anonymous posts, as far as I can tell, are either <br />> >>>>>>>>>> from folks at Christ Church or from<br />> >>>>>>>>>> critics of Christ Church. Does anyone have a <br />> >>>>>>>>>> counterexample to this and isn't this fact telling?<br !
/>>
>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>> --<br />> >>>>>>>>>> Joe Campbell<br />> >>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>> ---- "g. crabtree" <jampot@roadrunner.com />wrote:<br />> >>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>> I believe that Rodger means that the names were brought <br />> >>>>>>>>>>> up (listed) by<br />> >>>>>>>>>>> myself and someone else as examples of anonymous posters. <br />> >>>>>>>>>>> Not that those<br />> >>>>>>>>>>> vision members were posting currently.<br />> >>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>!
> g<br
/>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----<br />> >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Craine Kit" <kcraine@verizon.net /><br />> >>>>>>>>>>> To: "Chasuk" <chasuk@gmail.com /><br />> >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: <vision2020@moscow.com /><br />> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 8:24 PM<br />> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An Obama Dilemma<br />> >>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't get any postings by either "heridotus" or "Ford <br />> >>>>>>>>>>>> yesterday.<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't seen anything from either in quite some <br!
/>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> while. Am I<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>> missing something?<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>>> Kit Craine<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 3, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Chasuk wrote:<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 12:31, lfalen <br />> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <lfalen@turbonet.com />wrote:<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>>><br />>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There were about 5 listed in posts yesterday by Gary <br />> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and someone<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> else. Two of them were Heridotus and Ford.<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ah. I would consider J.Ford more a harmless crank than <br />> >>>>>>>>>>>>> a real<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "left-winger." The others I am unfamiliar with.<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>>>> =======================================================<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br />>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>>> =======================================================<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>>> =======================================================<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br />>
>>>>>>>>>>>> =======================================================<br />> >>>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>> =======================================================<br />> >>>>>>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br />> >>>>>>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br />> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net<br />> >>>>>>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br />> >>>>>>>>>>> =======================================================<br />> >>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>>>
=======================================================<br />> >>>>>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br />> >>>>>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br />> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net<br />> >>>>>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br />> >>>>>>>>>> =======================================================<br />> >>>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>>> =======================================================<br />> >>>>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br />> >>>>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br />> >>>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net<br />!
>
>>>>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br />> >>>>>>>>> =======================================================<br />> >>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>><br />> >>>>>>> =======================================================<br />> >>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br />> >>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br />> >>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net<br />> >>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br />> >>>>>>> =======================================================<br />> >>>>>><br />> >>>>>><br />> >>>>><br />> >>>>> =======================================================<br />>
>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br />> >>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br />> >>>>> http://www.fsr.net<br />> >>>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br />> >>>>> =======================================================<br />> >>>><br />> >>>><br />> >>><br />> >>> =======================================================<br />> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br />> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br />> >>> http://www.fsr.net<br />> >>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br />> >>> =======================================================<br />> >><br />> >><br />> ><br />> > =======================================================<br />> > List services made
available by First Step Internet,<br />> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br />> > http://www.fsr.net<br />> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br />> > =======================================================<br />> <br />> =======================================================<br />> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br />> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br />> http://www.fsr.net<br />> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br />> =======================================================<br />> <br />> <br />> =======================================================<br />> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br />> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br />> http://www.fsr.net <br />> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br />> =======================================================<br />> </p>