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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My goodness, I guess from your reply that your plan
is to make yourself too obnoxious to ignore. I assume that the "lie"
you are referring to comes from a response I posted to a question put to me by
Sunil Ramalingam on 10/28/07 at 2:03 P.M. in which I said in part:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"...I reserve the prefix for MD's and introductions
where using the term will convey due respect and information in that
context."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Since I was not sure if Mr. Schou was aware of
Jeff's professional status and expertise on the subject being discussed, I was
in effect trying to introduce him and his credentials using terms that convey
respect and information, pretty much exactly like I said in the post. Perhaps
you should have gone back and made sure of what it was I actually said. Once
again you are proven wrong and it sort of looks like the liar is
you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anyway, here we go again. I guess it's time to
restart the pool on how long it will take for you to stalk off in a huff,
swearing you'll never<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face=Arial
size=2>"discourse with me on any subject ever again," </FONT></FONT>and for how
long you will sulk before slinking on back to the forum. (will the usual
interested parties please contact me off-list) Don't you ever get tired of this
ridiculously juvenile cycle?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:joekc@roadrunner.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>joekc@roadrunner.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: "g. crabtree" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>jampot@roadrunner.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cc: "Andreas Schou" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>ophite@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>; <</FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>; "Jeff
Harkins" <</FONT><A href="mailto:jeffh@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>jeffh@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:05
PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And the Hits Just keep On
Coming . . .</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>I just wanted to point out that you are a liar. That is all.
Previously you claimed that you didn't use the label "Dr." for anyone other than
medical doctors. Something that your parents taught you. You lied. It is not a
big deal but folks should know.<BR>> <BR>> And I'll respond to you
whenever I wish. The fact that you are a jackass doesn't deter me.<BR>>
<BR>> --<BR>> Joe Campbell<BR>> <BR>> ---- "g. crabtree"
<</FONT><A href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>jampot@roadrunner.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>> wrote:
<BR>>> I assume you mean Dr. Harkins and no, he is not a medical doctor.
He is <BR>>> someone for whom I have respect. A better question would have
to be why are <BR>>> you addressing comments to me directly when we all
know what the eventual <BR>>> outcome of that all too familiar path? I
really don't want to repeat the <BR>>> cycle for what will have to be
what, the fifth or sixth time? Hows about I <BR>>> make you a deal. I
won't respond to your comments to the V and you ignore <BR>>> mine. You
know that ultimately you'll be a much happier camper if you do.<BR>>>
<BR>>> g<BR>>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>>> From:
<</FONT><A href="mailto:joekc@roadrunner.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>joekc@roadrunner.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>>>
To: "g. crabtree" <</FONT><A href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>jampot@roadrunner.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>>> Cc: "Andreas Schou" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>ophite@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>; <</FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>; "Jeff
<BR>>> Harkins" <</FONT><A href="mailto:jeffh@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>jeffh@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 8:13 AM<BR>>>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And the Hits Just keep On Coming . . .<BR>>>
<BR>>> <BR>>> > "Dr. Hawkins"? Is he a medical
doctor?<BR>>> > --<BR>>> > Joe Campbell<BR>>>
><BR>>> > ---- "g. crabtree" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>jampot@roadrunner.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
wrote:<BR>>> >><BR>>> >> Is it your contention that Dr.
Harkins CPA, Professor Emeritus of the<BR>>> >> University of
Idaho Collage of Business, Department of Accounting is <BR>>> >>
unable<BR>>> >> to read a small town budget report and has the facts
all wrong? If so, <BR>>> >> the<BR>>> >> appropriate
cites from the City of Wasilla records that you so carefully<BR>>>
>> checked out would be greatly appreciated.<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >> Or, as is somewhat more likely given previous
discussions I have had with<BR>>> >> you on this forum, did you lift
the whole thing in its entirety from the<BR>>> >> huffington post
and throw that bit about primary sources in an attempt to<BR>>> >>
lend a semblance of authenticity and credence to your argument?<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >> If you are willing to fudge the facts "when what's
at stake is fifty<BR>>> >> people's opinion of the Republican vice
presidential candidate" are you<BR>>> >> willing to prevaricate in
front of twelve jurors when what's at stake is<BR>>> >> your version
of justice? Are you willing to tweak the evidence to have <BR>>> >>
the<BR>>> >> court see things your way? Massage the truth to get one
lonely judge to <BR>>> >> buy<BR>>> >> in to your way of
thinking? If so, I see a bright future ahead for you in<BR>>> >> the
legal community, God help us all.<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>
g<BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>> >> ----- Original
Message ----- <BR>>> >> From: "Andreas Schou" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>ophite@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>>>
>> To: "Jeff Harkins" <</FONT><A href="mailto:jeffh@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>jeffh@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>>> >> Cc: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>>>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:17 AM<BR>>> >>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And the Hits Just keep On Coming . . .<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >><BR>>> >> > Jeff --<BR>>>
>> ><BR>>> >> > What you're saying is that "yes, what
you're saying is true true" but<BR>>> >> > also that "yes, I also
plan to smear you."<BR>>> >> ><BR>>> >> > So,
let's start with the smears and implicit threats. Really, Doc<BR>>>
>> > Harkins? You plan on reporting me to the Dean of Students? Over
the<BR>>> >> > fact that I had been pointed in the right
direction to find primary<BR>>> >> > resources? Look, I'm not
apparently not so so good at this -- could<BR>>> >> > you get me
the ABA citation rules for writing a bibliography for an<BR>>> >>
> email argument?<BR>>> >> ><BR>>> >> > So, why
don't you just do that, Doc. The appropriate person to contact<BR>>>
>> > would be Richard Seamon. </FONT><A
href="mailto:Richard@uidaho.edu"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Richard@uidaho.edu</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>. Why don't you see
how it<BR>>> >> > turns out. I'd certainly be interested. It's
certainly more than<BR>>> >> > slightly ridiculous for a tenured
academic to tilt at this particular<BR>>> >> > windmill, when
what's at stake is fifty people's opinion of the<BR>>> >> >
Republican vice presidential candidate.<BR>>> >> ><BR>>>
>> > Having disposed of that, let's go back to the beginning. I started
out<BR>>> >> > by reading Tom's post, though I'd been aware of
the issue for a while<BR>>> >> > before. I think I first read
about it on the American Prospect's blog.<BR>>> >> > Later the
same day, though only incidentally, I read about the same<BR>>> >>
> issue on the Washington Monthly's blog -- there's a Hilzoy post
there<BR>>> >> > and on Obsidian Wings. In the comments section
in (I'm relatively<BR>>> >> > sure) one of the two places,
someone had dropped in a link to the<BR>>> >> > Document Center
and cut+paste and page numbers from the .pdfs, as well<BR>>> >> >
as Mayor Palin's signature line. I double-checked the '98 and '95<BR>>>
>> > reports in order to confirm that I wasn't being fed a line of BS.
You<BR>>> >> > too can double-check the '98 line item on page 65;
that's the one I<BR>>> >> > still have on my desktop.<BR>>>
>> ><BR>>> >> > In other words, yes, I knew page numbers
from the very beginning, and<BR>>> >> > from secondary sources. I
neither scooped nor claimed to scoop anyone.<BR>>> >> > If the
confession you're looking for is that I did not troll through<BR>>>
>> > 300 pages of financial disclosures in order to write a
three-paragraph<BR>>> >> > response, I can only respond that
there is a difference between due<BR>>> >> > diligence in
checking your facts and obsessive-compulsive disorder.<BR>>> >>
><BR>>> >> > -- ACS<BR>>> >> ><BR>>>
>> > On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Jeff Harkins <</FONT><A
href="mailto:jeffh@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>jeffh@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>> <BR>>>
>> > wrote:<BR>>> >> >> Yes, the internet is a
wonderful research tool. And I certainly agree<BR>>> >>
>> with<BR>>> >> >> using the primary sources - avoids
the problem of bias in summarized<BR>>> >> >>
digests<BR>>> >> >> of info. It also alleviates all
those messy citations.<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >>
>> So, I had no problem getting to the Document Central and in
particular<BR>>> >> >> the<BR>>> >> >>
historical operating and capital budgets as well as the
audited<BR>>> >> >> financial<BR>>> >> >>
statements. But I was somewhat skeptical when I began to review
the<BR>>> >> >> budgets<BR>>> >> >> and, as
would be normal, the budgets were all summarized by function - <BR>>>
>> >> so<BR>>> >> >> I<BR>>> >>
>> could pick out the Police budget, but not the detailed
expenditures.<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >> >> Same
story for the Audited Financial Statements. They were all
there,<BR>>> >> >> but<BR>>> >> >> it would
have been surprising for the financials to be reporting<BR>>> >>
>> expenditures at the sub-object level. The details of expenditures
<BR>>> >> >> were<BR>>> >> >>
not<BR>>> >> >> there.<BR>>> >>
>><BR>>> >> >> Then it hit me - how did you obtain all
those names and details from<BR>>> >> >> financial
reports?<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >> >> so - a few
nanoseconds on Google and up pops an article on the <BR>>> >>
>> Huffington<BR>>> >> >> Post.<BR>>> >>
>><BR>>> >> >> Below is an excerpt from the story
by<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >> >> Jacob
Alperin-Sheriff<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >> >> and
here is the full citation:<BR>>> >> >> </FONT><A
href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jacob-alperinsheriff/sarah-palin-instituted-ra_b_125833.html"><FONT
face=Arial
size=2>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jacob-alperinsheriff/sarah-palin-instituted-ra_b_125833.html</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>>> >> >> However, I was able to eventually
track down Irl Stambaugh, police <BR>>> >> >>
chief<BR>>> >> >> of<BR>>> >> >> Wasilla
from the founding of the department until Sarah Palin fired <BR>>>
>> >> him<BR>>> >> >> for<BR>>> >>
>> "not fully supporting her efforts to govern." Stambaugh sued for
<BR>>> >> >> breach<BR>>> >> >>
of<BR>>> >> >> contract, but lost when a federal judge ruled
that "police chiefs <BR>>> >> >> serve<BR>>> >>
>> at<BR>>> >> >> the behest of the mayor unless
otherwise specified." He later served <BR>>> >> >>
as<BR>>> >> >> the<BR>>> >> >> executive
director of the Alaska Police Standards Council.<BR>>> >> >>
It turns out that Wasilla did not bill sexual assault victims for
the<BR>>> >> >> cost<BR>>> >> >> of rape
exams while Irl Stambaugh was chief of police. As chief, he <BR>>>
>> >> had<BR>>> >> >> included a line item in the
budget to pay for the cost of such exams. <BR>>> >> >>
He<BR>>> >> >> had<BR>>> >> >> only just
heard about the Mayor Palin/Chief Fannon policy today, and <BR>>> >>
>> was<BR>>> >> >> just as shocked to hear about it as I
was.<BR>>> >> >> Checking the budget confirmed former Chief
Stambaugh's claim. He had<BR>>> >> >> included a contingency
of $15,000 in his budget for the department's <BR>>> >> >>
1st<BR>>> >> >> year of existence (1993-1994), $5,000 for
1994-1995 and 1995-1996, and<BR>>> >> >> $13,000 for his final
year as police chief in 1996-1997, spending<BR>>> >> >>
$11,625.<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >> >> Duwayne
Charles Fannon, his replacement, halved the budget request in<BR>>>
>> >> 1997-1998, with a request of $7,298, spending $3,454. However,
it <BR>>> >> >> seems<BR>>> >> >>
he<BR>>> >> >> began the "victim pays" policy in the 1998-1999
fiscal year. That <BR>>> >> >> year,<BR>>> >>
>> he<BR>>> >> >> requested $3,000 but spent only $205.
This data can be found in the<BR>>> >> >> Document<BR>>>
>> >> Central section of Wasilla's website. I am to understand that
you are<BR>>> >> >> studying law (first year?). You have
some explaining to do.<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >>
>> You stated that you obtained information from a primary source.
That<BR>>> >> >> does<BR>>> >> >> not appear
to be substantiated by the facts.<BR>>> >> >><BR>>>
>> >> It does appear that you plagiarized the material and you
<BR>>> >> >> misrepresented<BR>>> >> >>
the<BR>>> >> >> basis for your report (that is, at best,
disingenuous and, at worst, a<BR>>> >> >> gross<BR>>>
>> >> misrepresentation or lie). Perhaps you have an
explanation that I <BR>>> >> >> have<BR>>> >>
>> overlooked something.<BR>>> >> >><BR>>>
>> >> I have no interest in any further dialogue with you.
But, I would <BR>>> >> >> hope<BR>>> >> >>
that, should my rationale be correct, you have enough honor to <BR>>>
>> >> apologize<BR>>> >> >> to<BR>>>
>> >> all the posters on the viz and, if you are indeed a law
student, that <BR>>> >> >> you<BR>>> >> >>
report your actions to the Dean of the Law School. Remember, this is
a<BR>>> >> >> public forum so your comments will remain in
perpetuity.<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >> >> This has
been a great disappointment!<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >>
>> At 06:38 PM 9/12/2008, you wrote:<BR>>> >>
>><BR>>> >> >> On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Jeff
Harkins <</FONT><A href="mailto:jeffh@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>jeffh@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>> <BR>>>
>> >> wrote:<BR>>> >> >>> Because you don't
know the context of Wasilla and it residents, hence <BR>>> >>
>>> a<BR>>> >> >>> potential for bias on your
part. And no, Palin, as Mayor, could not<BR>>> >> >>>
dictate<BR>>> >> >>> a budget policy - that can only be
done by the Council.<BR>>> >> >>><BR>>> >>
>>> Read the statute for municipal government in AK. By the way,
for the<BR>>> >> >>> most<BR>>> >> >>>
part, Idaho municipalities are subject to the same laws.<BR>>> >>
>>><BR>>> >> >>> Both states require public
oversight of budget creation and budget<BR>>> >> >>>
implementation.<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >> >> Jeff
--<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >> >> We live in the
era of the Internet.<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >> >>
So let's just move past all the secondary sources and take a look at<BR>>>
>> >> primary sources, shall we? The City of Wasilla has kindly
published<BR>>> >> >> all of its budgets for the years when
Sarah Palin was governor, so we<BR>>> >> >> can all see what
happened. In the '93-'94 fiscal year, Irl Stambaugh<BR>>> >>
>> requested (and received) a $15,000 contingency line item for
sexual<BR>>> >> >> assault exams, a $5,000 contingency line
item for the '94-'95 fiscal<BR>>> >> >> year, and a $13,000
contingency line item for the '95-'96 fiscal year.<BR>>> >> >>
He spent around $10,000 of that money over the three years (if
you're<BR>>> >> >> interested, again, you can total it
up).<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >> >> Then Sarah
Palin fired him.<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >> >> The
new police chief halved the line item request, to $7,298, and<BR>>>
>> >> spent around half of that. The 'victim pays' policy was
instituted the<BR>>> >> >> next year, under Sarah Palin's
watch, and only $205 of the $3,000<BR>>> >> >> allocated was
spent on sexual assault exams--though I'm not quite sure<BR>>> >>
>> what that $205 was spent on, as it's not enough to cover the cost of
a<BR>>> >> >> whole sexual assault exam. That same year, the
law was enacted to<BR>>> >> >> prevent Wasilla--the only
municipality in Alaska to have that<BR>>> >> >> policy--from
continuing as it had. (Incidentally, that policy<BR>>> >> >>
endangered statewide VAWA funding.)<BR>>> >> >><BR>>>
>> >> The facts essentially go like this: Sarah Palin fires the old
police<BR>>> >> >> chief and hires a hand-selected new police
chief. That new police<BR>>> >> >> chief requests a rape-exam
line item, and continues to request rape<BR>>> >> >> exam line
items throughout his career. However, despite the money<BR>>> >>
>> being allocated, the new police chief refuses to spend it. The
issue<BR>>> >> >> in Wasilla is sufficiently bad that it
alerts the legislature, which<BR>>> >> >> starts to pass a law
to prevent Wasilla to continue with its policy;<BR>>> >> >>
furthermore, the issue is raised in statewide media. If Palin was
not<BR>>> >> >> aware of her handpicked police chief's
policy--a policy which was on<BR>>> >> >> her desk as a
specific budget line item, the subject of statewide<BR>>> >>
>> legislation, and the subject of statewide media coverage--then she
is<BR>>> >> >> merely an incompetent executive, rather than a
heartless supporter of<BR>>> >> >> 'a la carte' law
enforcement.<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >> >> --
ACS<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >> >> * Anyone who's
interested in trolling through budgets to confirm what<BR>>> >>
>> I said can find those budgets here:<BR>>> >> >>
</FONT><A href="http://www.cityofwasilla.com/index.aspx?page=136"><FONT
face=Arial
size=2>http://www.cityofwasilla.com/index.aspx?page=136</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial size=2>. If only Moscow had<BR>>> >> >> something
similar.<BR>>> >> ><BR>>> >> >
=======================================================<BR>>> >>
> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>> >>
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>>> >>
>
</FONT><A href="http://www.fsr.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>>>
>> > </FONT><A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>> >> >
=======================================================<BR>>> >>
><BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>> >>
=======================================================<BR>>>
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>>
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>>>
>>
</FONT><A href="http://www.fsr.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>>>
>> </FONT><A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>> >>
=======================================================<BR>>>
><BR>>> > <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>
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