<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div>Is there some problem that is trying to be solved here? If someone has wealth through whatever legal means and manages their assets in a responsible manner, how are they not deserving of keeping that wealth? If that same person blew their wad, I can't imagine there would be much of an outcry of unfairness and a plan of how we should all chip in to restore that particular person to their former net worth. And as for some people undeserving of debt, I completely agree that there are some scenarios that are completely unfair such as someone with a long drawn out illness that bankrupts the entire family before the government steps in with assistance for medical care. That doesn't make sense to me I think that scenario should be eliminated in some sensible manner..
And from my understanding, presently there aren't many options around that quagmire except for maybe assisted suicide.<br><br>What's wrong with the system we have in place here in America? As long as there is a level playing field in terms of equal opportunity, isn't that the fairest system? Now, if there is not a level playing field in terms of equal opportunity, then that should be fixed and I think we've come a long way in eliminating roadblocks on the basis of gender, race, sexual orientation, disabilities, etc.<br><br>Are we in disagreement about any of this?<br><br>-Scott<br></div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">----- Original Message ----<br>From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com><br>To: Scott Dredge <sdredge@yahoo.com><br>Cc: viz <vision2020@moscow.com><br>Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008
8:38:57 PM<br>Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Vision2020] The Nation, 6/30/08<br><br>
It's not always that easy. Some people actually learn, albeit the hard <br>way. So giving someone money and having them blow it sometimes teaches <br>them a little bit about how to budget effectively. If you've never had <br>any, it's easy to lose track of it. If you're not very good at math, <br>it's easy to find out how little money that huge sum you thought you had <br>actually was.<br><br>Granted, there are those who never seem to learn. That's true <br>everywhere. I just don't think it's a natural law that wealthy people <br>deserve their wealth and poor people deserve their debt. How many <br>wealthy people could climb their way back to the top if you took away <br>the money? How many of them inherited their wealth and have no idea how <br>to gain it back? The fact that some do doesn't mean they all could.<br><br>I need to rent Trading Places again.<br><br>Paul<br><br>Scott Dredge wrote:<br>>
For the most part, hasn't this been proven over and over again such as <br>> millionaires losing just about everything in the Great Depression only <br>> to move on and become millionaires again or poor people who win the <br>> lottery and then 20 years later are back to being poor again?<br>><br>> Personally, I don't need to look much further than my own family and <br>> extended family to site numerous examples of trying to help someone <br>> out by lending them money or 'selling' them a car at about 10% of its <br>> blue book value and finding out ultimately that in the long run you <br>> haven't really done anything to help them out at all.<br>><br>> -Scott<br>><br>> ----- Original Message ----<br>> From: "Kai Eiselein, Editor" <<a ymailto="mailto:editor@lataheagle.com" href="mailto:editor@lataheagle.com">editor@lataheagle.com</a>><br>> To: Andreas Schou <<a ymailto="mailto:ophite@gmail.com"
href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com">ophite@gmail.com</a>><br>> Cc: <a ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 1:40:45 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Nation, 6/30/08<br>><br>> There is no moralizing in my st<tr><td valign="top"></td></tr>atement.<br>> I believe that, for whatever reason, some people are better at gaining<br>> wealth than others. Those people will always find a way to become wealthy.<br>> There are also those who would spend their last nickel on a whim. They <br>> will<br>> always wind up broke.<br>> Most of us wind up between those two.<br>><br>><br>><br>> --------------------------------------------------<br>> From: "Andreas Schou" <<a ymailto="mailto:ophite@gmail.com" href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com">ophite@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a
ymailto="mailto:ophite@gmail.com" href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com">ophite@gmail.com</a>>><br>> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 12:44 PM<br>> To: "Kai Eiselein, Editor" <<a ymailto="mailto:editor@lataheagle.com" href="mailto:editor@lataheagle.com">editor@lataheagle.com</a> <br>> <mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:editor@lataheagle.com" href="mailto:editor@lataheagle.com">editor@lataheagle.com</a>>><br>> Cc: "Saundra Lund" <<a ymailto="mailto:sslund_2007@verizon.net" href="mailto:sslund_2007@verizon.net">sslund_2007@verizon.net</a> <br>> <mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:sslund_2007@verizon.net" href="mailto:sslund_2007@verizon.net">sslund_2007@verizon.net</a>>>; "lfalen"<br>> <<a ymailto="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com" href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</a> <mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com" href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</a>>>; "keely emerinemix" <br>> <<a
ymailto="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com" href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">kjajmix1@msn.com</a> <mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com" href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">kjajmix1@msn.com</a>>>;<br>> <<a ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> <mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>>><br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Nation, 6/30/08<br>><br>> > On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Kai Eiselein, Editor<br>> > <<a ymailto="mailto:editor@lataheagle.com" href="mailto:editor@lataheagle.com">editor@lataheagle.com</a> <mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:editor@lataheagle.com" href="mailto:editor@lataheagle.com">editor@lataheagle.com</a>>> wrote:<br>> >> Human nature is human nature.<br>> >> Chances are, most of the "have nots" would blow their windfall <br>>
purchasing<br>> >> things they could have never afforded before.<br>> >> Without thinking of the future, many people would blow right <br>> through it.<br>> >> Once gone, they would wind up selling many of the things they purchased<br>> >> because they didn't save any of it for neccesities.<br>> >> Many of the "haves" would see opportunities and try to make the most of<br>> >> their windfall, gaining wealth.<br>> ><br>> > A great deal of this is a reflection of the way in which the economy<br>> > rewards labor and capital. The high transportation and communication<br>> > costs of the postwar economy (combined with the decimated industrial<br>> > capacity in Europe) rewarded local production and local consumption.<br>> > This allowed the unprecedented development of a blue-collar middle<br>> > class. The economy, in other words, was structured to reward
labor<br>> > over capital.<br>> ><br>> > The modern has low transportation and communication costs and spare<br>> > industrial capacity even in third-world nations. Manufacturing<br>> > capacity, except for high-value items, has essentially been rendered<br>> > fungible. Consequently, the bottom has dropped entirely out of the<br>> > blue-collar middle class: even skilled workers have been forced to get<br>> > jobs in the service economy.<br>> ><br>> > At the same time, conservative reforms have lowered capital-gains<br>> > taxes and stripped away the estate tax -- both important mechanisms to<br>> > reduce the concentration of wealth and reduce the self-rewarding<br>> > nature of capital. Efficiency gains caused by the changes in the<br>> > modern economy have sent corporate profits through the roof. CEO<br>> > compensation, which is largely denominated in
corporate stock, has<br>> > consequently risen.<br>> ><br>> > The US is in a perverse economy where work doesn't make you money;<br>> > money makes you money. This has nothing to do with your ass-backward<br>> > moralizing about budgeting and more to do with corporate kleptocracy.<br>> ><br>> > -- ACS<br>> ><br>> Kai Eiselein<br>> Editor, Latah Eagle<br>><br>> =======================================================<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a> <br>> mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a> <mailto:<a
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