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Hi Kai,<br><br>
I find your calling me "Doc" just as offensive as Doug Farris
calling me "Teach," so please cut out that crap. I address you
as "Kai," so please address me as "Nick."<br><br>
You, along with millions of other Americans, do not know how science
works. The best scientists are known for their humility and
acknowledgment of the limits of their wonderful methods. There is
no "dodging" involved at all. It is simple methodological
honesty, something sorely lacking in intelligent design
proponents.<br><br>
As Paul nicely explained, the Big Bang is a theory that best explains the
evidence, some of which Paul laid out for us. You may remember that
Fred Hoyle's "steady state universe" theory lost out to the Big
Bang in the 1960s. The empirical evidence simply did not support
steady state.<br><br>
Paul was also correct in saying that questions about what happened before
the Big Bang and where matter and energy came from are not scientific
questions. As I always told my philosophy students, scientific
disciplines are not required to prove the existence of their respective
subject matters. (Did you ask your biology teacher what
"life" was?) That is where philosophy of physics and philosophy
of biology come into play. <br><br>
God is not a scientific hypothesis (a title of one of my columns at
<a href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/design.htm" eudora="autourl">
www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/design.htm</a>); rather, God, matter, and
energy are metaphysical hypotheses. These concepts can be
approached with speculation and logic. The principle that matter
and energy can never be created or destroyed is an axiom, not something
that can be proved empirically.<br><br>
Yes, you are correct: the ancients developed some amazing knowledge, most
likely by quasi-scientific trial and error, certainly not by divine
revelation. The fact that today's scientists are confirming this
knowledge only confirms the powers of keen observation and intelligence
on the part of our distant ancestors. It does at all mean that
their myths are true. The fact that the ancient Tibetans knew the
diameter of the earth and the distinction between deep sleep and REM
sleep is amazing, but it does not mean that Tibetan Buddhism is true or
scientific because of this.<br><br>
You say you'll take your chances with the "wisdom of the
ancients," but you surely you must place some conditions on that
sweeping claim. (That means that you will take subordination of
women and castes along with the Hindu zero and Chinese science???)
I'd rather side with the scientists and critical philosophers who take
what checks out empirically or conforms to current views of universal
human rights.<br><br>
Nick<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">No false dillema, Doc.<br>
What happened "in the beginning"?<br>
Paul's statement that the big bang theory doesn't try to explain
"the beginning", may be true, but is still a dodge.<br>
Any scientist worth his, or her, salt would ask "What happened
before that? And before that? Why? How?"<br>
How did that "something" get there? What came BEFORE the big
bang? HOW did matter originate? What caused it to go
bang?"<br>
Most, if not all, of the cultures on the face of this planet have a
creation story. Those stories predate the written word, like it or not,
those stories are a part of of humankind's collective memory; a memory
that stretches back thousands of years.<br>
Modern science dates back, what, three, maybe four hundred years?<br>
Remember, modern science is just now tapping into the knowledge and
collective memory of indigenous peoples in search of medicines. At one
time science laughed at these same people as being backwards and
unsophisticated, as it turns out their knowledge/memory, which reaches
back into the earliest of times, may very well hold the key to cure many
of our ills.<br>
Yet, creation stories are tossed off like so much chaff and we are to
believe in science without question.<br>
While I'm not particulary religious, and I AM fascinated by our universe,
I'll take my chances with the wisdom of the ancients that there was
nothing before a Greater Being created something.<br><br>
<hr>
</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<font size=2>"Truth is the summit of being; justice is the
application of it to human affairs."<br>
--Ralph Waldo Emerson<br><br>
"Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings
who represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."<br>
--Mohandas Gandhi<br><br>
"Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot
be discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each
part by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on
the interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our
intellectual life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science,
religion, and art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its
various parts." --Ma</font><font size=1>x Planck<br><br>
</font>Nicholas F. Gier<br>
Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho<br>
1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843<br>
<a href="http://www.home.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/home.htm" eudora="autourl">
http://www.home.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/home.htm<br>
</a>208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950<br>
President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO<br>
<a href="http://www.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/ift.htm" eudora="autourl">
http://www.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/ift.htm<br><br>
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