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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This hardly seems to be a false dilemma at all. One
side insists that out of nothing, an explosion occurred for no
apparent reason at all and the universe was created. The other side
professes that God said "bang" and the universe was created. The "certain
observations" after the fact could/would remain the
same. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The big bang requires the suspension of disbelief
adequate to buy into the notion of from nothing, everything.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Creation requires the faith to believe in an all
powerful deity that wanted the universe to exist for a reason.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>They both require a single belief for which there
is no evidence.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I know which way I'm betting.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ngier@uidaho.edu href="mailto:ngier@uidaho.edu">Nick Gier</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=godshatter@yahoo.com
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul Rumelhart</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:09
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] [Bulk] Re:
Dennis Avery & S. Fred Singer: Climate Science Frauds</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hi Paul,<BR><BR>Great answer to Kai's false
dilemma.<BR><BR>Nick<BR><BR>At 06:01 PM 6/26/2008, you wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite">Kai Eiselein, Editor
wrote:<BR>> Actually both sides of this debate require suspension of
belief.<BR>> <BR><BR>Not really. The Big Bang theory
doesn't try to answer the question of <BR>what happened before the
singularity or what caused it to explode. It's <BR>just there to
explain certain observations, such as why the farther away <BR>something is
the greater it's redshift is, which it appears to do really <BR>well.
For example, the theory predicts certain ratios for the abundance <BR>of
certain elements as a by-product of the known state of the universe
<BR>within the first twenty minutes of it's starting point, which seems to
<BR>fit really closely with what we've observed.<BR><BR><A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_nucleosynthesis"
eudora="autourl">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_nucleosynthesis</A><BR><BR>So
there's little suspension of disbelief required. You just follow the
<BR>evidence, and don't worry about those kinds of questions (what happened
<BR>before the Big Bang?) until you have some kind of framework you can use
<BR>to address them.<BR><BR>A deity, on the other hand, requires a whole
bunch of different beliefs <BR>for which there is no evidence, nor is it
predictive in any way. <BR>Fortunately, belief in that system requires
belief with a complete lack <BR>of evidence (faith) and the assumption that
no meaningful predictions <BR>can occur (God works in mysterious ways), so
it all works out in the
end.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR><BR>=======================================================<BR> List
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</A><BR> <A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"
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<P></X-SIGSEP><FONT size=2>"Truth is the summit of being; justice is the
application of it to human affairs."<BR>--Ralph Waldo Emerson<BR><BR>"Abstract
truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who represent it, by
proving their readiness to die for it."<BR> --Mohandas
Gandhi<BR><BR>"Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system
cannot be discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each
part by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the
interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual life.
It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and art. The
whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts." --Ma</FONT><FONT
size=1>x Planck<BR><BR></FONT>Nicholas F. Gier<BR>Professor Emeritus,
Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho<BR>1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID
83843<BR><A href="http://www.home.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/home.htm"
eudora="autourl">http://www.home.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/home.htm<BR></A>208-882-9212/FAX
885-8950<BR>President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO<BR><A
href="http://www.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/ift.htm"
eudora="autourl">http://www.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/ift.htm<BR><BR></A>
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