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Andreas, I don't know when I've read a more cogent analysis of liberty, justice, and terrorism. Thank you.<br><br>And I feel fortunate that you're going to be a lawyer, because reasonableness of the type you demonstrate here hasn't seemed to be all that common in law or government these days.<br><br>Keely<br><br><br><br><br>> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 23:41:14 -0700<br>> From: ophite@gmail.com<br>> To: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>> CC: vision2020@moscow.com<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gitmo<br>> <br>> > Individual rights are important. Very important. But understand, they are<br>> > not more important than rights of an entire nation to be safe and free from<br>> > being blown up at work, school, or home.<br>> <br>> Donovan --<br>> <br>> Individual rights and the rule of law are, in fact, more important<br>> than the "right" to be safe and free from being blown up. Americans<br>> die in hurricanes and of heart attacks; they die of bee stings and car<br>> bombings. We die whether or not our government fights terrorism, but<br>> the way in which we live and die is shaped in no small part by the<br>> actions of our government.<br>> <br>> Our nation has made a conscious decision that we are to be a liberal<br>> democracy and not an autocratic security state. This has costs, and<br>> like virtually all of the costs of government action, from Medicare<br>> deductibles to Army Corps of Engineers levees to free speech, these<br>> costs are measured in human lives.<br>> <br>> It's popular to talk about the way in which our military pays the<br>> price for the freedoms which we take for granted. But not enough<br>> Americans are willing to shoulder the burden of American civilian<br>> deaths for our principles. I'm fairly sure those deaths have happened.<br>> <br>> A competent antiterrorism policy, based around the principle that had<br>> prevented foreign terrorist attacks on American soil for fifty years,<br>> could have prevented 9/11. A policy of arbitrary detention of<br>> immigrants from Arab nations could quite likely have done likewise,<br>> though it would have likely spurred more and worse attacks. We chose<br>> not to do that. Rightly so.<br>> <br>> Guantanamo is an attempt to covertly renegotiate the social contract<br>> that states that there are certain things which we will not do: that<br>> we will not torture or arbitrarily detain people; that we will treat<br>> our enemies with respect whether or not they deserve it, because of<br>> the code we live by, rather than the way they would treat us were our<br>> situations reversed.<br>> <br>> I would object less if it were done out in the light: if we had made<br>> no attempts to deny what we were doing. But this attempt to undercut<br>> the Constitution and the Geneva Convention under cover of secrecy,<br>> "for our own safety," corrupts our culture without forcing us to have<br>> a conversation about the risks we are willing to take for the<br>> principles that lie at the very heart of our culture.<br>> <br>> -- ACS<br>> <br>> =======================================================<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> http://www.fsr.net <br>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> =======================================================<br><br /><hr />Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. <a href='http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_062008' target='_new'>IM on your terms.</a></body>
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