<DIV><BR>RALPH<BR>There is usually only one interpretation/translation of what the <BR>Bible says. But there are many distortions, perversions and just <BR>plain lies about what it says.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DONOVAN</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hey, and each religion thinks they have the correct one, just like you do, just like I do. <BR><BR>RALPH<BR><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1212314573_0 style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">The Bible</SPAN> actually says that humans were kicked out of the garden so <BR>they could not eat of the tree of life and live forever like God. It <BR>does not say "that we die because we sinned and God kicked us out of <BR>the Garden of Eden."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DONOVAN:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What is the difference? In either case, we are not allowed to live in land of Eden, and we die because of it. <BR><BR><BR>RALPH<BR>What the <SPAN class=yshortcuts
id=lw_1212314573_1 style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">New Testament</SPAN> says about Christ has nothing to do with what <BR>the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament has to say. Most of the HB was written <BR>centuries before the NT was composed. There is no mention of Christ <BR>anywhere in it.<BR><BR>> DONOVAN<BR></DIV> <DIV>So? I care about the NT. That is the fulfillment of the OT. The OT is not finished without the remainder.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>RALPH<BR>We do not have to have "the personal discipline to go through the <BR>entire <SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1212314573_3 style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">Old Testament</SPAN>" to read what the LORD God himself said about no <BR>eternal life for humans. It can be found near the end of the third <BR>chapter of the very first book of the <SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1212314573_4 style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">Old
Testament</SPAN>. This is usually <BR>only about 3 or 4 pages into your Bible. You can't miss it, Donovan. <BR>And you don't have to "interpret" it either; it means exactly what it <BR>says.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DONOVAN:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Bible has been interpreted dozens of time before you even read it, So there has already been interpretation. <BR><BR><BR>Best Regards,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Donovan<BR><B><I>Ralph Nielsen <nielsen@uidaho.edu></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><BR>On May 30, 2008, at 11:19 PM, Donovan Arnold wrote [slightly snipped]:<BR><BR>> DONOVAN<BR>> There are hundreds if not thousands of interpretations of the Bible.<BR><BR>RALPH<BR>There is usually only one interpretation/translation of what the <BR>Bible says. But there are many distortions, perversions and just <BR>plain lies about what it
says.<BR><BR>DONOVAN<BR>> Mine taught me that we die because we sinned and God kicked us out <BR>> of the Garden of Eden.<BR><BR>RALPH<BR>The Bible actually says that humans were kicked out of the garden so <BR>they could not eat of the tree of life and live forever like God. It <BR>does not say "that we die because we sinned and God kicked us out of <BR>the Garden of Eden."<BR><BR>> DONOVAN<BR>> Ralph, it is not my intent to convince you or anyone else that <BR>> Christ is real. That is not within my power to do so. But also <BR>> understand, it is not within your power to convince me of your <BR>> understanding of the Bible for two reasons. One, you don't believe <BR>> the truth, that Christ exists, so we start off with me knowing you <BR>> are confused in the first place. Second, the core information that <BR>> matters is that Christ died for our sins and those that accept and <BR>> believe shall be saved. Everything else is trivial in
comparison. <BR>> If you don't comprehend that Christ is real, I don't think you can <BR>> fully understand the Bible.<BR><BR>RALPH<BR>What the New Testament says about Christ has nothing to do with what <BR>the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament has to say. Most of the HB was written <BR>centuries before the NT was composed. There is no mention of Christ <BR>anywhere in it.<BR><BR>> DONOVAN<BR>> I do commend you though for having the personal discipline to go <BR>> through the entire Old Testament and read all of that information.<BR>><BR>RALPH<BR>We do not have to have "the personal discipline to go through the <BR>entire Old Testament" to read what the LORD God himself said about no <BR>eternal life for humans. It can be found near the end of the third <BR>chapter of the very first book of the Old Testament. This is usually <BR>only about 3 or 4 pages into your Bible. You can't miss it, Donovan. <BR>And you don't have to "interpret" it either; it means exactly
what it <BR>says.<BR><BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------ <BR>-------<BR>><BR>> [Earlier] Ralph Nielsen <NIELSEN@UIDAHO.EDU>wrote:<BR><BR>> Donovan,<BR>> You need to read the Bible more carefully. We do not die as<BR>> punishment for disobedience of God. We die because God never intended<BR>> us to live forever like him. Please reread what I have already posted<BR>> before.<BR>> Ralph<BR>><BR>> RALPH<BR>> In the Hebrew Bible there is no eternal life for humans. I quoted God<BR>> himself in Genesis 3:22-24. But it seems Donovan doesn't believe God.<BR>> And he doesn't believe Ralph either.<BR>><BR>> DONOVAN<BR>> What would be illogical and a fallacy, would be to believe Ralph's<BR>> self appointed interpretation of the Bible, and its meaning, over<BR>> that of trained scholars and religious leaders throughout the world.<BR>> I believe God, I just don't believe
you.<BR>><BR>> RALPH<BR>> God said he does not intend humans to live forever:<BR>> "Then the LORD God said, "See the man has become like one of us,<BR>> knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out his hand and take<BR>> also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"---therefore<BR>> the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the<BR>> ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man; and at the east<BR>> of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a sword flaming and<BR>> turning to guard the way to the tree of life (Genesis 3:22-24).<BR>><BR>> Ralph also said humans do not live forever. Ralph agrees with God,<BR>> Donovan does not.<BR>><BR>> "Trained scholars" say:<BR>><BR>> 22-24. Neither the first nor the second account of creation portrays<BR>> humankind as created immortal. Nor does the punishment of v.19, which<BR>> speaks of Adam's returning to the ground from which he
was taken,<BR>> mean that he would have lived forever, had it not been for his<BR>> disobedience. Jewish Study Bible, p. 18.<BR>><BR>> Much later, biblical religion postulated that the ultimate destiny of<BR>> the individual does not end with death. There is not a hint of this<BR>> suggestion in the Torah [Pentateuch], however, or in most of the<BR>> [Hebrew] Bible. There, human death is final. ... With the possible<BR>> exceptions of Elijah and Enoch, all biblical personalities die and<BR>> their death is final. Etz Hayim, Torah and Commentary. p. 1436.<BR>><BR>> Life after Death. It is generally held by scholars that no hope of<BR>> individual survival after death is expressed in the OT before some of<BR>> its latest passages, which were probably written in the 2nd cent.<BR>> B.C. New Jerome Biblical Commentary. p. 1313.<BR>><BR>> Concerning the human condition in the Hebrew Bible, "There is no hint<BR>> here of any
possibility of meaningful life after death." A Short<BR>> Introduction to the Hebrew Bible, by John J. Collins (Yale<BR>> University). p. 40. (On the same page is "Theological Misconceptions"<BR>> about the Xian Original Sin theory.)<BR><BR>=======================================================<BR>List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>http://www.fsr.net <BR>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p>