<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16640" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Since my name has been dragged into this
discussion, I assume my thoughts have some relevance.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Private E-mail between friends has a reasonable
expectation of privacy. E-mail between colleagues may also have a similar
expectation. Acquaintances might also receive this privilege. Threats of public
violence from a total stranger are for me to do with as I will and should have
no expectation of being held in confidence. I elected to make it public on this
list and as such Donovan has every right to refer to it if he so chooses. It is
now public domain. Just because a person wishes their ill
considered outburst had been kept secret does not make it a "private comment."
What's "funny" is the inability to ignore the jabs and let the matter
die.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "Joe Campbell" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>joekc@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: "Donovan Arnold" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cc: "vision2020" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 6:45 AM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What? Everyone
Deserves Death.</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>> Donovan writes: "Finally, I am disappointed by your action of
posting private <BR>> emails on the V. I think that undermines trust and the
nature in which people <BR>> post emails." <BR>> <BR>> This is funny
given that Donovan is one of a bunch of people who likes to <BR>> repeat my
private comment to Crabtree!<BR>> <BR>> --<BR>> Joe Campbell<BR>>
<BR>> ---- Donovan Arnold <</FONT><A
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
wrote: <BR>> <BR>> =============<BR>> Ted,<BR>>
<BR>> "The wages of sin. is death" (Rom. 6:23). This is a basic belief
of Christianity, not cults, as you profess. Without that belief Jesus's
sacrifice would have been pointless. Everyone one of use acts or sins against
God. And because of that, we all deserve death. Jesus died for our sins so we do
not have to suffer our deserved punishment. <BR>> <BR>>
Where you are confused, is you think it gives people a license to kill and
discriminate against others. It doesn't. That is a false conclusion you and
others arrive at that don't understand Christianity because you choose not to
listen to what is being said.<BR>> <BR>> On your other
point of attacking my posts as being unproductive, I do not think you are in the
strongest position to lay the ground work of this attack on me. I have not seen
ANY of your posts changing or invoking any productivity in Moscow or anywhere
else.<BR>> <BR>> Your posts are usually about five pages
of complaints about the environment. I have never seen you work on any social
issues, change legislation, campaign for anyone, or even run a recycle can
drive. Your words are hollow, backed by no legislation, no originality, and no
progressive movement, just noise. <BR>> <BR>> Finally, I
am disappointed by your action of posting private emails on the V. I think that
undermines trust and the nature in which people post emails.
<BR>> <BR>> Best Regards,<BR>> <BR>> Donovan
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Ted Moffett <</FONT><A
href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>starbliss@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
wrote:<BR>> Donovan Arnold, or whoever,
wrote:<BR>> <BR>> </FONT><A
href="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2008-May/053886.html"><FONT
face=Arial
size=2>http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2008-May/053886.html</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>> <BR>> I think everyone deserves
death Joe. As everyone is a sinner. But only through the grace of God and
the sacrifice of Jesus do we live.<BR>> --------------<BR>> This
statement represents the kind of thinking that makes religious cults dangerous,
no matter what religion is supporting this extremism.<BR>>
--------------<BR>> Paul wrote:<BR>> <BR>>
</FONT><A
href="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2008-May/053844.html"><FONT
face=Arial
size=2>http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2008-May/053844.html</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>> <BR>> I just figure that it doesn't
matter much if Donovan is one person, a <BR>> committee, multiple
personalities, a hive mind, a front for a <BR>> corporation, a demon host, an
AI, or a couple of local church members. <BR>> If he says something
idiotic, it's still idiotic and if he makes a good <BR>> point it's still a
good point. <BR>> ------------------<BR>> Paul, your approach
to "Donovan's" posts apparently is tolerant of those who antagonize and provoke,
while perhaps hiding who they are on Vision2020. It does matter if
Vision2020 participants are misrepresenting who they are, or allow others to
hijack their identity. It creates a climate on the list that does not
encourage honest forthright participation by sincere players, and undermines
fact and logic based discussion, when the bogus (or even real) identity
distorts what people assert, on a routine basis, changes their point of view,
seemingly at random, deliberately to create confusion, it appears, and indulges
in juvenile personal attacks, wasting posting space with this nonsense.
Those posting under Donovan's name, or even if Donovan is the author of all this
confusion, represents an effort to obfuscate honest debate and dialog, to poison
Vision2020, in my opinion.<BR>> <BR>> Those who
misrepresent who they are on Vision2020, or let their e-mail account be hijacked
by others, should be ignored, in most cases, even if they make a good
point. <BR>> <BR>> Below is an "Off List" e-mail
on this subject that I reconsidered regarding posting it to the
list:<BR>> <BR>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------<BR>>
From: Ted Moffett <</FONT><A href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>starbliss@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>> Date: May 12, 2008 12:29 AM<BR>> Subject: Off List: Re:
[Vision2020] The Fetus is Not a Baby and is not a Person<BR>> To: deb
<</FONT><A href="mailto:debismith@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>debismith@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>>
<BR>> Off List<BR>> <BR>> Deb-<BR>>
<BR>> Exactly. <BR>> <BR>> Yet, Keely,
Joe C., Chas, et. al. must know this, yet they keep engaging with "Donovan" in
what seem to me to be pointless dialog. Is this to find a focal point for
debate, provide entertainment to keep Vision2020 engaging (yellow journalism
sells), offer Donovan their "help?" <BR>> <BR>>
Donovan sometimes makes good points. I have occasionally responded to his
posts. But this recent nonsense, as sometimes in the past, is over the
top. I guess if it is true that others are posting under Donovan's name,
then the responses are aimed at whoever they are. Why give the ghost
writer reinforcement by responding? This is perhaps an encouragement for
"bad" list serve behavior. Ghost writers should be ignored, I think, if it
is known this is occurring. Some might say however, that insults and
nonsense on the list should be responded to, even if from idiots or ghost
writers, to now allow it to pass unchallenged.<BR>>
<BR>> Sometimes it seems Donovan is deliberately making himself too
easy a target, to provoke responses.<BR>> <BR>> I don't
want to post as Vision2020 psychiatrist, like some do. This I find
laughable and offensive, given that no responsible professional psychiatrist
would do therapy on a public list serve, given that this could do real harm to a
truly pathological personality. And as far as I know, none of those
responding to Donovan are psychologists or psychiatrists. Talk about
needing to stop the "unqualified pronouncements" as Chas phrased it. He
should not psychoanalyse Donovan on Vision2020, as he has done, it seems to
me...<BR>> <BR>> Anyway, your post expressed what I have
been thinking, but did not post to the list... Trying to moderate Vision2020 is
like herding cats...<BR>> <BR>> Ted<BR>>
<BR>> On 5/11/08, deb <</FONT><A
href="mailto:debismith@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>debismith@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
wrote:<BR>> Once again, the V is sucked into replies to the
"Donovan" persona. Please,<BR>> as I have pleaded with all my friends on the
V many times over the past 4<BR>> years, BOZO filter this guy. Stop replying,
stop giving the lunatic<BR>> credance, and stop letting him manage you all
into being angry at someone<BR>> who only deserves our pity...<BR>> Debi
R-S<BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> From: "Tom Hansen"
<</FONT><A href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>thansen@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>> To:
"keely emerinemix" <</FONT><A href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>kjajmix1@msn.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>; "Donovan
Arnold"<BR>> <</FONT><A href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>; "Joe Campbell" <</FONT><A href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>joekc@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>;
"Vision<BR>> 2020" <</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>;
"Ralph Nielsen" <</FONT><A href="mailto:nielsen@uidaho.edu"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>nielsen@uidaho.edu</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>> Sent:
Sunday, May 11, 2008 3:58 PM<BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Fetus is Not
a Baby and is not a Person<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>> "I never first
strike. But I will attack back with full force."<BR>>> - Donovan J.
Arnold (or is it Doudalchri Wilcourwit?) on May 11, 2008<BR>>><BR>>>
The question then becomes . . . What would God do in retribution to
you<BR>>> and your sinful attitude toward your fellow man,
Arnold?<BR>>><BR>>> Perhaps . . .<BR>>><BR>>> "God Will
F*ck You Up"<BR>>> </FONT><A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA-pWKRyyG8"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA-pWKRyyG8</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>><BR>>> I just know this will lift the lid off a few well
stirred stink pots.<BR>>><BR>>> Keep them cards and letters
coming.<BR>>><BR>>> Tom Hansen<BR>>> Moscow,<BR>>>
Idaho<BR>>><BR>>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
=======================================================<BR>> List
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<BR>>
</FONT><A href="http://www.fsr.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>
<BR>> </FONT><A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
=======================================================<BR>></FONT></BODY></HTML>