<DIV>Tommy Boy,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Feel free to give us as many moments of your silence that you wish. I am sure few will complain. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Best Regards,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Donovan<BR><BR><B><I>Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Your silence is deafening, Keely.<BR><BR>I am just as certain, though, that Arnie (aka Doudalchri Wilcourwit) will <BR>take serious offense to its intent.<BR><BR>For that reason I believe we all owe Arnie (aka Doudalchri Wilcourwit) a <BR>moment of well-deserved silence.<BR><BR>For you, donnie-boy and all the things you do.<BR><BR>Hush,<BR><BR>Tom Hansen<BR>Moscow, Idaho<BR><BR><BR>> <BR>> (deliberate silence)<BR>> <BR>> Keely<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 13:37:01 -0700<BR>> From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<BR>> Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] just sarcasm? no!<BR>> To: kjajmix1@msn.com; vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> <BR>> Rev. Keely, It is sad you try to defend your stereotyping of people.<BR>An> d it is also sad that you only like white guys that "know their <BR>place." <BR>> My suggestion, to you Keely, is not to attack people based on their<BR>race,> gender, etc. if you want people to be open to looking at things <BR>from a<BR>dif> ferent angle. Your tactics of kicking a guy repeatedly in the <BR>groin,<BR>fo> r having the audacity of being born male, and wondering why some men <BR>ask<BR>wh> y you do that, and respond by saying, because you are a white male,<BR>doesn't> help your cause. I am curious Keely, how I personally have <BR>benefited<BR>f> rom being a white guy? You don't know me and my situation well enough to<BR>ma> ke that claim. You are simply making a generalized stereotype that ALL<BR>WHIT> E GUYS have it better then all other people. And
that simply is not <BR>true.<BR>I> t is a racial stereotype. Just<BR>> as assuming that all minorities and women have it worse off then white<BR>men> .. I understand that this country has had a 250 year history of<BR>discrim> ination against Non-Whites, women, and some religions. But <BR>assuming that<BR>no> body else is under fire or discriminated against, or that white men <BR>cannot<BR>> be discriminated against is horrendously flawed thinking. Reverse<BR>discr> imination hinders the cause of human rights. It attacks and <BR>vilifies those<BR>> that wish to better understand. Most people don't have a problem,<BR>including> white guys, what a person's gender, race, religion, creed, <BR>disability,<BR>ori> entation, or national origin is. We don't. Really, we don't give a <BR>hoot.<BR>Br> inging it up every ten seconds and focusing in on it like that is the<BR>entir> ety of a person is a step backwards. Making sure every panel and
<BR>staff has<BR>> a perfect ratio of Whites, Blacks, India, Mexicans, Women, Men,<BR>Homosexuals> , persons with a disability,<BR>> etc is STUPID and destructive. It is time to move on and get out the <BR>60s.<BR>> Hire people based on merit, and see people as an individual, not their<BR>race> , gender, disability, etc. Every person is a minority, unique, and <BR>should<BR>n> ot be categorized. I hope Keely, you never work at a homeless<BR>shelter,> or a food bank, because no doubt you would feed the white guy <BR>last,<BR>becaus> e in your mind, he has it better than everyone else. Best <BR>Regards, <BR>> Donovan <BR>> <BR>> keely emerinemix <KJAJMIX1@MSN.COM>wrote: Dear Donovan, or whoever<BR>ge> ts to play him this morning,<BR>> <BR>> I believe you may have missed, or ignored,<BR>> the part about "trading in social division;" in other words, "white <BR>guys"<BR>> who benefit from racism, sexism, etc., and who trade in --
encourage, <BR>take<BR>> part in, further the cause of, manipulate through -- social division. <BR>> <BR>> These people (please re-read the first sentence) are the ones who annoy <BR>me<BR>> when they ask in pseudo-innocence why "the rest of us" care about those<BR>thi> ngs. Some white males are like that. Most are not. I'm married to a<BR>whit> e guy who I love deeply. I cherish the two white guys I'm raising. <BR>I'm<BR>in> finitely fond of the white guy who's my dad. They are all privileged<BR>white> men who seek to understand the "other" in a society that defines<BR>"othernes> s" too often as "not of the prevailing white, Protestant, male <BR>standard,"<BR>a> nd who recognize their privileged status and use what they have and what<BR>th> ey know to empower and care for those around them. They're also <BR>acutely<BR>aw> are of how much they need other<BR>> people. They don't dare suggest that other people are simply
poor<BR>imitati> ons of them; they see other people -- women, non-Anglos, gays, <BR>poor<BR>people,> non-Christians -- as intrinsically and uniquely valuable <BR>expressions of<BR>th> e love of a Creator who transcends every possible category we could <BR>claim<BR>f> or ourselves. You'll have to ask yourself if you're like that, or like<BR>the> guys in my initial post.<BR>> <BR>> But it's a lot more fun to rant and rave against me, I know, so have at<BR>it.> I just wish you had the guts to use your real name. Either way, <BR>though,<BR>> have a lovely day.<BR>> <BR>> Keely<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 00:03:10 -0700<BR>> From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] just sarcasm? no!<BR>> To: kjajmix1@msn.com; vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> <BR>> Keely, " I find it more than a little annoying when white guys who<BR>tr> ade in social division " <BR>> This is precisely
the type of racist, discriminatory, sexist,<BR>derogator> y language that makes me ask why you think this helps end <BR>discrimination<BR>an> d further better understanding? You think because someone is <BR>white, or<BR>> male, or a certain brand of Christian, they cannot participate, or know<BR>any> other type of discrimination or hardship, or have anything <BR>meaningful or<BR>u> seful to contribute? This commentary is disgusting, hurtful and<BR>deliberatel> y divisive. I would think that after decades of <BR>attacking people for<BR>t> heir race, gender, religion, disability status, sexual orientation, to <BR>end<BR>> discrimination against it would be long recognized as a tactic that<BR>doesn't> work and just puts people off. When you attack someone for <BR>their<BR>gend> er, as you do, or their religion, as you do, or their race, as you <BR>do, you<BR>> turn people off. You think your woes, and pains,<BR>> and discrimination is worse
and less justified than what others may go<BR>thr> ough. And this is not always the case, and a big stereotype <BR>perpetrated by<BR>> you and others that needs to be stop. It is so hurtful, to be told you <BR>are<BR>> worthless, have no opinion, or could know no discrimination because of<BR>your> skin color, gender, religion. As though that is everything your <BR>are, and<BR>n> obody else is discriminated again. That is SO offensive, and factually<BR>inco> rrect. Ask yourself why all the other Western Modernized <BR>Nations,<BR>Fra> nce, Britain, Germany, Italy, Sweden, don't have the hang ups that <BR>the US<BR>d> oes about Race, Religion, Gender, Disability etc. They have had women<BR>leade> rs, great ones, and women in every position, without having the <BR>hostile,<BR>ne> gative, nasty, self righteous discriminatory and divisive positioning <BR>your<BR>> have. Your obsession, that is constantly insulting people, and<BR>> pointing
out peoples differences as a weakness, doesn't not exist. As a<BR>re> sult, they don't have the problems that the US has with it. I <BR>don't<BR>ca> re if you are a women, you are still a proud sexist. I don't care your<BR>race> , you are still a racist. I don't care your religion, you are still<BR>against> freedom of religion. And yes, Keely, I legally fit into two <BR>minority<BR>g> roups that are "specially protected" by the federal and state <BR>government.<BR>S> o don't play those games with me. You don't know what discrimination I<BR>have> faced. Or what court and legal battles I have faced, or what <BR>adversity I<BR>h> ave faced. But you know, I don't think discriminating against people<BR>becaus> e they are not a women, or because they are white, or richer than <BR>me, or<BR>do> n't have a disability, or they are a Christian, or some other<BR>characteristi> c that isn't is like me, is the answer--as you do. <BR>> Nor do I obsess
about it. If we would just hire people based on<BR>me> rit, and give everyone an equal shot, we would not have to obsess over<BR>diff> erences in people. Or like you, attack them people they don't fit a<BR>minorit> y group you can easily identify by meeting them in person. <BR>Best<BR>Regard> s, Donovan <BR>> <BR>> keely emerinemix <KJAJMIX1@MSN.COM>wrote: <BR>> Visionaires,<BR>> <BR>> I wasn't too terribly worried that my "why<BR>> not ask a patriarch from the League of the South?" comment earlier today<BR>-> - based on "Donovan's" question about why everyone gets so worked up <BR>about<BR>> race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. -- would be seen as sarcastic to<BR>peo> ple. It was; I think we all know that I do sarcasm fairly well, <BR>sometimes<BR>> not with noble intention or honorable result. I try to apologize<BR>immediate> ly and publicly when I'm merely insulting.<BR>> <BR>> This, however, was something different,
and I'd like to address my <BR>offlist<BR>> correspondent in explaining why I wrote what I wrote:<BR>> <BR>> The question came from either the real Donovan J. Arnold of UI student<BR>gove> rnment fame or a cadre of Dono-Wannabes using his identity to engage <BR>in<BR>deb> ate without the backbone to so -- and I believe that to be the case, <BR>based<BR>> on similarities in these and in the literary canon of Edna Wilmington,<BR>Shir> ley Pissedoff, etc., all puppets masterfully engaged by our <BR>skylarking<BR>Defe> nders of All Things Kirk. Also, I'm<BR>> pretty familiar with Donovan's rhetoric and style; this doesn't seem to<BR>be> the guy I sparred with during the bond campaign. Either way, though, <BR>the<BR>> question bothered me in its quasi-innocence? Why -- the plaintive<BR>question> er wants to know -- are we all so interested in the ethnic, <BR>sexual,<BR>religio> us demographic of an Interfaith group meeting? Can't we all
just <BR>get<BR>along> , or something like that?<BR>> <BR>> But it's the "real" Donovan who has rudely treated people who are<BR>different> from him, whether by one of the above demographic categories <BR>or by<BR>holding> to political or religious views, perhaps informed by those <BR>demographics,<BR>t> hat he disagrees with. He's made it an issue. Further, if today's<BR>questio> ner is a Kirk defender (The Artist Formerly Known As Edna?), then <BR>he is a<BR>d> efender of a religio-political movement that thinks gender, race,<BR>religion,> sexual orientation and political beliefs are valid -- <BR>necessary --<BR>divisor> s in society. No<BR>> one could defend the Confederacy, call for the Southern states to secede<BR>f> rom the Union, fly a Confederate flag, and explain slavery as a benefit <BR>to<BR>> black families and seriously be expected to be seen as a "race-neutral"<BR>soc> ial thinker. Few cling as mightily to "hard"
ideas of male headship <BR>and<BR>fe> male submission in the church and family, and someday in millennial<BR>society> , as the all-male eldership of Christ Church. I don't know of <BR>any other<BR>g> roup that publishes writings that approve of death-by-stoning of<BR>homosexual> s once they themselves are in control of society, and I've <BR>rarely read<BR>more> smug vitriol directed against liberals than that produced by the<BR>paleo-con> servative, Deo-Libertarian, paleo-Confederates of Anselm <BR>House. Remember<BR>"> liberal women are ugly," anyone?<BR>> <BR>> But regardless of the true identity of the author of the original<BR>question,> that person is indisputably a white male, and I find it more <BR>than a<BR>little> annoying when white guys<BR>> who trade in social division and benefit from it expect to be taken<BR>seriou> sly when they ask why, by golly, are some of us so dang wrapped up <BR>in the<BR>g> ender, race,
orientation stuff. It's simple. We like it when someone<BR>othe> r than "you" (or my sons, my dad, or my husband) advance in <BR>society. <BR>> <BR>> It's really that simple, if a bit sarcastic.<BR>> <BR>> Keely<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Windows Live SkyDrive lets you share files with faraway friends. <BR>Start<BR>> sharing.<BR>======================> =========================> ========<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> http://www.fsr.net <BR>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> =========================> =========================> =====<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Get Free (PRODUCT) RED™ Emoticons, Winks and Display Pics.<BR>> Check it out!<BR>====================> =========================> ==========<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the communities of the Palouse since
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