<div>An agnostic or an atheist is a person. They may entertain any number of "faiths," but they either question or deny the existence of "God." Consider the person who elevates "Gaia" to the level of a living being which they "worship." Given they may question or deny the existence of "God," there is a sense in which they may be viewed as "anti-faith," but not toward their faith. They certainly appear "anti-faith" to some devout absolutist Christians who think the only way to eternal salvation is through Christ. But many theists deny the validity of the "faiths" of others. Thus these "God" believers can be "anti-faith," toward faiths that question their faith. Witness the views of some Christians who think Earth worshippers are satanic. This could clearly be viewed as an "anti-faith" perspective, if you happen to be an Earth worshipper, of some sort. </div>
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<div>Of course many try to accept and show tolerance toward all faiths, not trying to deny the value of other differing faiths, a rather difficult project when considering the political, economic and military struggles that control human life and resources on Earth. Differing faiths mandate very different approaches, often diametrically opposed, with moral commands demanding the "faith deniers" be resisted or stopped. The fact that, at least here in the US, believers in the Christian God are overwhelmingly the dominant viewpoint, appears to result in the view of faith being rigged so that if you question the Christian God, you lack faith or are a non-believer. To rephrase, those who believe in the Christian God might be said to lack faith, from the perspective of other non-theist faiths, or even theistic faiths that do no focus on Christ. </div>
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<div>Though no doubt many will strenuously object to the following theory, I think a good case could be made that materialistic expansionist capitalism is really one of the dominant "faiths" in the US. Christianity is good cover to dress this up in a noble spiritual ideology. Consider how Christianity was used to justify the cultural genocide and theft of native land and resources in the colonization of North America by Europeans. Native faiths were denied as false or nonexistent, while the one true God of Christianity was justification to convert the "Godless savages," as they were driven out of their lands and ways of life.</div>
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<div>And while I stood there I saw more than I can tell, and I understood more than I saw; for I was seeing in a sacred manner the shapes of things in the spirit,and the shape of all shapes as they must live together like one being.</div>
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<div align="right"><em>Black Elk, Black Elk Speaks</em></div>
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<div>Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett<br><br> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 5/12/08, <b class="gmail_sendername">Chasuk</b> <<a href="mailto:chasuk@gmail.com">chasuk@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 9:06 PM, Donovan Arnold<br><<a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>> Agnostics and Atheists are not faiths. They are anti-faiths.<br><br>Correct and incorrect simultaneously. While agnostics and atheists<br>are not "faiths" (the part you got right), they are also not<br>
"anti-faiths" (they part you got wrong).<br><br>I subscribe to the Bertrand Russell definitions of agnosticism and<br>atheism. If you embrace other definitions, then what follows may not<br>work for you (which is why in my personal life I have stopped using<br>
these labels, having long grown weary of tedious debates).<br><br>Russell expressed it succinctly in this paragraph:<br><br>"... An atheist, like a Christian, holds that we can know whether or<br>not there is a God. The Christian holds that we can know there is a<br>
God; the atheist, that we can know there is not. The Agnostic suspends<br>judgment, saying that there are not sufficient grounds either for<br>affirmation or for denial. At the same time, an Agnostic may hold that<br>the existence of God, though not impossible, is very improbable; he<br>
may even hold it so improbable that it is not worth considering in<br>practice. In that case, he is not far removed from atheism. His<br>attitude may be that which a careful philosopher would have towards<br>the gods of ancient Greece. If I were asked to prove that Zeus and<br>
Poseidon and Hera and the rest of the Olympians do not exist, I should<br>be at a loss to find conclusive arguments. An Agnostic may think the<br>Christian God as improbable as the Olympians; in that case, he is, for<br>practical purposes, at one with the atheists."<br>
<br>I know Christian agnostics, who quite happily acknowledge that they<br>don't know that God exists, whilst fervently believing that he does,<br>thereby leaving room for doubt, a necessary ingredient of faith.<br><br>
When I was a Christian, I was an existentialist in the school of Søren<br>Kierkegaard, so naturally the "leap to faith" (or "leap of faith") was<br>an important part of my belief (and remains so).<br><br>
As for atheism being anti-faith, consider that most flavours of<br>Buddhism have no consistent, explicit doctrine of a god or gods, yet<br>is emphatically a faith, if only arguably a religion. What I'm trying<br>to say is, neither affirming the nonexistence of deities or rejecting<br>
theism necessarily means that you lack faith.<br><br>Chas<br><br>=======================================================<br>List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
<a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<br></blockquote>
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