<DIV>Why do liberals call them children when they are illegal immigrants but an aborted fetus when they are an economic inconvenience?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Best Regards,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Donovan<BR><BR><B><I>keely emerinemix <kjajmix1@msn.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <STYLE> .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } </STYLE> Do you think that referring to the children of undocumented immigrants as "spawn" really helps your argument? Your contempt is showing, and it's really ugly.<BR><BR>Keely<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>> From: jampot@roadrunner.com<BR>> To: ophite@gmail.com<BR>> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 13:01:12 -0700<BR>> CC: vision2020@moscow.com; donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate<BR>> <BR>>
What part of "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" do you not <BR>> understand?<BR>> Illegal aliens and their spawn are subject to the jurisdictions of their <BR>> countries of origin. This phrase was included in the amendment for a reason. <BR>> To say otherwise is to disregard all of the subsequent case law. If the <BR>> amendment was intended to apply to all people born within the United States <BR>> why were Indians, Chinese, foreign visitors and ambassadors all immediately <BR>> excluded? Since this matter has not been directly addressed by the Supreme <BR>> Court it is disingenuous to pretend that this is a cut and dried issue.<BR>> <BR>> g<BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite@gmail.com><BR>> To: "g. crabtree" <jampot@roadrunner.com><BR>> Cc: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>; <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:49 AM<BR>>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Gary --<BR>> <BR>> You quoted a co-author of the amendment, but not the text of the<BR>> actual amendment.<BR>> <BR>> "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to<BR>> the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the<BR>> State wherein they reside."<BR>> <BR>> What part of "all persons born or naturalized" do you not understand?<BR>> The text of the amendment overrides any statement of intent by its<BR>> authors. If they intended the amendment to mean something other than<BR>> its plain meaning (or if they intended the amendment to express jus<BR>> sanguinis rather than jus soli), that's the amendment they should've<BR>> written.<BR>> <BR>> Unfortunately, conservative readings of the 14th amendment are as<BR>> openly BS as liberal readings of the commerce clause.<BR>> <BR>> --
ACS<BR>> <BR>> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 6:49 AM, g. crabtree <jampot@roadrunner.com> wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > "P.S. Children of illegal immigrants born on American soil or American<BR>> > citizens. If you disagree with that, go ahead and change the<BR>> > Constitution -- it's in there, plain as day."<BR>> ><BR>> > Not in the Constitution, as such, but found in a misinterpretation of a<BR>> > portion of the 14th amendment. At the time that this amendment was <BR>> > ratified<BR>> > (1868) the U.S. had no immigration policy. The clause Mr. Schou refers to<BR>> > was intended to address the status of freed slaves and overturn the Dred<BR>> > Scott decision. According to amendment Co-author Ohio Senator Jacob <BR>> > Howard:<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > "Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to<BR>> > their jurisdiction, is by
virtue of natural law and national law a citizen<BR>> > of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in <BR>> > the<BR>> > United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of<BR>> > ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the <BR>> > United<BR>> > States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the <BR>> > great<BR>> > question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or <BR>> > are<BR>> > not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum <BR>> > in<BR>> > the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > Clearly, this amendment was not intended to extend legal status to <BR>> > children<BR>> > born in this country by legal aliens much less aliens who are already<BR>> > breaking U.S. law by overstaying a
visa or making a illegal boarder<BR>> > crossing. This was confirmed by the supreme court in 1884. No change to <BR>> > the<BR>> > Constitution would be required to end the practice of extending <BR>> > citizenship<BR>> > to the offspring of aliens in this country illegally.<BR>> > g<BR>> ><BR>> > ----- Original Message -----<BR>> > From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite@gmail.com><BR>> > To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com><BR>> > Cc: <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> ><BR>> > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 2:38 PM<BR>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > Donovan --<BR>> ><BR>> > You are misinformed.<BR>> ><BR>> > It's frequently, and correctly, been ruled that illegal immigrants<BR>> > can't be denied emergency health care, but the requirements to prove<BR>>
> citizenship for federally-funded services like Medicaid and TANF are<BR>> > onerous at best*. In order to get either, you have to provide<BR>> > documentation of both citizenship and identity: in other words, a<BR>> > birth certificate and a driver's license.<BR>> ><BR>> > -- ACS<BR>> ><BR>> > P.S. Children of illegal immigrants born on American soil or American<BR>> > citizens. If you disagree with that, go ahead and change the<BR>> > Constitution -- it's in there, plain as day.<BR>> ><BR>> > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 12:06 AM, Donovan Arnold<BR>> > <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>> > > Rev. Keely is being dishonest with her statements and intentionally<BR>> > > deceptive.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Illegal aliens, the same as legal immigrants, in the US, are legally<BR>> > > entitled to get education, emergency medical services, welfare, low
<BR>> > > income<BR>> > > housing, and other tax supported services intended to go to US citizens.<BR>> > She<BR>> > > knows courts have ruled we cannot deny these services based on legal<BR>> > status.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > So you can see her statement<BR>> > ><BR>> > > "The consulates do not exist to help Mexican immigrants gain access to<BR>> > > taxpayer-supported social services to which they are not, by reason of<BR>> > their<BR>> > > immigration status, legally entitled.",<BR>> > ><BR>> > > is a big meaningless pile of sh*t worded in a manner to make you swallow<BR>> > it<BR>> > > down that my statement was false, when she knows it wasn't.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > The main function of Mexican Consulates is to get illegal aliens access <BR>> > > to<BR>> > > US taxpayer supported services. I said nothing about the
illegality of <BR>> > > the<BR>> > > entitlement.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Each day 1000 illegal aliens alone visit the LA Mexican Consulate to<BR>> > obtain<BR>> > > "ID cards" which they force local government, through federal law, to<BR>> > except<BR>> > > in place of US driver's licenses and Visa, which only illegal immigrants<BR>> > do<BR>> > > not have. This allows the people here illegally from Mexico to access<BR>> > state<BR>> > > and federal services.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Keely is aware of this fact. She is also aware that Consulates provide<BR>> > legal<BR>> > > and financial assistance to illegal aliens so they can remain in the US.<BR>> > It<BR>> > > is also known that the consulates provide pamphlets on how to avoid<BR>> > > detection in the US while here illegally and how to cross the boarder<BR>> > >
illegally and not get caught.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > I am guessing that MOST readers on the V, are not so naive as to believe<BR>> > > that the reason consulates exist, and they get tens or hundreds of<BR>> > thousands<BR>> > > of visitors by illegal aliens each years, is to show support for<BR>> > diplomatic<BR>> > > and trade relations with the US and Mexico.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Best Regards,<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Donovan<BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > > keely emerinemix <kjajmix1@msn.com> wrote:<BR>> > ><BR>> > > As politely as possible, let me respond to Donovan as someone who has<BR>> > spent<BR>> > > a lot of time in the Mexican consulate in Seattle.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Bulls**t.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > The consulates do not exist to help Mexican immigrants gain access to<BR>>
> > taxpayer-supported social services to which they are not, by reason of<BR>> > their<BR>> > > immigration status, legally entitled. Suggesting that they do is<BR>> > > recklessly, maliciously untrue. But it is entirely understandable <BR>> > > coming<BR>> > > from someone as misinformed on the issue as Donovan, and as dense as <BR>> > > Bill<BR>> > > Sali.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Keely<BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > > ________________________________<BR>> > > Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 22:01:27 -0700<BR>> > > From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<BR>> > > To: joekc@adelphia.net<BR>> > > CC: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate<BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > > Joe,<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Are
you serious? Or are you joking? If you have been anywhere outside <BR>> > > the<BR>> > > protective bubble of a University, you must be joking.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > First off, the only reason that Mexican Consulates exist is to get <BR>> > > illegal<BR>> > > aliens access to US government services, like welfare, unemployment<BR>> > > benefits, food stamps, diver's licenses, gas vouchers, low income <BR>> > > housing,<BR>> > > legal aid, and jobs, that would otherwise go to US citizens.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Second, you are wrong that Americans would not take farm work if the <BR>> > > farm<BR>> > > work paid a livable wage. If you believe that ANY workers should be<BR>> > allowed<BR>> > > to be paid a sub-livable wage, than you sir, need to rethink your <BR>> > > outlook<BR>> > on<BR>> > > the value of a person.<BR>> >
><BR>> > > Third, your statements reveal your racists and stereotyped beliefs.<BR>> > Illegal<BR>> > > aliens are not all a bunch of dumb, idiotic potato pickers making $4 an<BR>> > > hour. Most of them are bright, intelligent, hard working inventive <BR>> > > people,<BR>> > > certainly more so than the bottom 1/3 of US workers they are competing<BR>> > with<BR>> > > in the US job market. They work in the hospitality, construction,<BR>> > > manufacturing, agriculture, automotive, and almost every other category <BR>> > > in<BR>> > > the below middle class job market. Having 40,000 illegal immigrants in <BR>> > > the<BR>> > > state willing and able to work in the jobs lower class citizens can only<BR>> > do<BR>> > > hurts their wages. Why does a business only pay a house cleaner $10 an<BR>> > hour<BR>> > > instead of $12? Because he
can hire 30 others willing to do the work for<BR>> > the<BR>> > > $10. Same goes for meat packers, lawn services, farm workers, and other<BR>> > > services and industries.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Joe, you don't live in the real world. You aren't forced to find a job<BR>> > > making $10 an hour, and when you apply you are waiting with 20 others <BR>> > > that<BR>> > > are willing to do the same job for $9 and have 20 years experience, most<BR>> > of<BR>> > > them not here legally? How many times have you had that happen to you,<BR>> > Joe?<BR>> > > I bet none. You live in the fantasy world where illegals are bunch of <BR>> > > dumb<BR>> > > educated idiots that can only pick potatoes and tomatoes for $4. They <BR>> > > are<BR>> > > aren't carpenters, drivers, maids, painters, lawn care providers,<BR>> > > manufacturers, and in other jobs
reducing livable wages for the bottom <BR>> > > 1/3<BR>> > > of the work US workforce.<BR>> > > Real wages are on a decline, and most US citizens are suffering as a<BR>> > result<BR>> > > of illegal immigrants being allowed to work in the US for lower wages, <BR>> > > and<BR>> > > sometimes illegal wages.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Oppose Slavery, Joe. Oppose illegal immigration. Support livable wages <BR>> > > for<BR>> > > all US workers, Joe. Oppose illegal immigration.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Best Regards,<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Donovan<BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > > Joe Campbell <joekc@adelphia.net> wrote:<BR>> > > Donovan,<BR>> > ><BR>> > > How on earth will Sali's efforts "keep illegal activities and illegal<BR>> > >
immigrants<BR>> > > out of the state"? For that matter, what can the Mexican government do <BR>> > > to<BR>> > > prove that they "won't aid illegal aliens" and earn a Mexican consulate<BR>> > > here?<BR>> > ><BR>> > > And just for the record, I'm sure that there are plenty of folks in <BR>> > > Idaho<BR>> > > and<BR>> > > Washington who would be willing to pay you sub-minimum wage to pick <BR>> > > fruit.<BR>> > > The problem is not with the Mexican immigrants, and they aren't taking<BR>> > away<BR>> > > jobs that would otherwise go to American citizens.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > --<BR>> > > Joe Campbell<BR>> > ><BR>> > > ---- Donovan Arnold wrote:<BR>> > ><BR>> > > =============<BR>> > > I am voting to reelect Bill Sali precisely because he is attempting to<BR>> > keep<BR>> > >
illegal activities and illegal immigrants out of the state. Idaho has<BR>> > enough<BR>> > > problems getting enough funding for its schools, and providing other<BR>> > social<BR>> > > and medical services. Having to provide for thousands of others who are<BR>> > not<BR>> > > legal residents is to much of a burden for poor Idahoans. An influx of<BR>> > labor<BR>> > > also reduces wages, something we also can ill afford in Idaho.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Best Regards,<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Donovan<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Tom Hansen wrote:<BR>> > > Just when you thought that Bill Sali couldn't get more ignorant, I am <BR>> > > here<BR>> > > to tell you . . .<BR>> > ><BR>> > > >From today's (May 1, 2008) Spokesman Review -<BR>> > ><BR>> > > -----------------------------------------------<BR>> > ><BR>>
> > Sali seeks to delay Mexican consulate<BR>> > > Todd Dvorak<BR>> > > Associated Press<BR>> > > May 1, 2008<BR>> > ><BR>> > > BOISE – Rep. Bill Sali, R-Idaho, is urging Secretary of State <BR>> > > Condoleezza<BR>> > > Rice to hold off opening a Mexican consulate in Idaho until the <BR>> > > government<BR>> > > can show the office won't aid illegal aliens.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Sali, a conservative first-term congressman, sent Rice a letter <BR>> > > Wednesday<BR>> > > saying Idaho residents deserve guarantees that Mexican consular offices<BR>> > > will not help illegal aliens obtain identification cards that can be <BR>> > > used<BR>> > > to receive government services or other benefits.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > "Our government has the moral and constitutional duty to take into<BR>> > > consideration how
foreign consulates affect our fellow citizens here in<BR>> > > our own country," Sali wrote in the letter to Rice that was made <BR>> > > available<BR>> > > to news media.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > "While I appreciate the important role that the Mexican and other <BR>> > > foreign<BR>> > > consulates play in facilitating trade and assisting their citizens in<BR>> > > distress just as our foreign consulates do, that is not the issue at <BR>> > > stake<BR>> > > here," he added.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Sali asserted that the State Department has done little to assure<BR>> > > residents that a consular office would not be used to aid illegal<BR>> > > immigration.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > The State Department did not return phone messages from the Associated<BR>> > > Press on Wednesday.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > In March, Sali received a
letter from the State Department saying an<BR>> > > application for a consular office in Boise is pending.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Idaho is one of several states without a Mexican consulate, but a grass-<BR>> > > roots effort to open one has been under way for several years. <BR>> > > Supporters<BR>> > > say they have collected about 10,000 signatures on a petition requesting <BR>> > > a<BR>> > > Mexican consular presence in the state.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > -----------------------------------------------<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Seeya round town, Moscow.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Tom Hansen<BR>> > > Moscow, Idaho<BR>> > ><BR>> > > "People who ridicule others while hiding behind anonymous monikers in<BR>> > chat-<BR>> > > room forums are neither brave nor clever."<BR>> > ><BR>> > > - Latah County Sheriff Wayne
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