<DIV>Andreas,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My argument is this. When you open a Mexican Consulate, more illegal laborers come to the community because they get services and legal help to stay in the country illegally. The illegal laborers drive down wages so that US Citizens cannot get a fair wage for a days work. They shut down businesses trying to hire only legal labor because they cannot compete with the companies using illegal labor. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We already have trade relations with Mexico. You don't need a full Mexican Consulate to continue trade relationships with Mexico. You only need one so you have the space to process the illegal laborers, get them ID Cards so they can access social services, get bank accounts, housing, ect., in the community they plan to work illegal in. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Best Regards,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Donovan</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Andreas Schou <ophite@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Donovan --<BR><BR>What you're telling me is that although it is illegal for illegal<BR>immigrants to obtain the services which you had previously asserted<BR>were legally available to them, an identification card issued by the<BR>Mexican consulate is somehow magically sufficient to cause government<BR>agencies to roll over and grant services. Furthermore, the risk of<BR>this happening is so great that we could not possibly allow a major<BR>trading partner and ally of our country to open a new diplomatic<BR>mission in Boise.<BR><BR>Am I understanding you? Is this actually the extent of your argument?<BR><BR>-- ACS<BR><BR>On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:49 AM, Donovan Arnold<BR><DONOVANJARNOLD2005@YAHOO.COM>wrote:<BR>> Andreas,<BR>><BR>> Thanks for the lecture. I was not born
rich. I never was rich. I am poor,<BR>> and it is in good part due to a disability I didn't create, nurture, choose,<BR>> or can be cured or fixed. I am college educated, but who isn't from Moscow,<BR>> Idaho. My religious beliefs have nothing to do with wealth.<BR>><BR>> You see no irony in the fact that you argue that people here illegally<BR>> cannot get access to goods and services because it is illegal to do so?<BR>><BR>> By your logic, there are no illegals here either because it is illegal for<BR>> them to be here.<BR>><BR>> Illegal laborers are here in the United States, Andreas. They are here. They<BR>> get CDLs, they get food stamps, they get welfare checks, they get medical<BR>> services, legal services, low income housing, and a host of other US<BR>> taxpayer supported services. You can look up all the laws and rules that you<BR>> want saying it isn't so, but it is happening.<BR>><BR>> Guess what else? When you
introduce 12 million + illegal laborers into the<BR>> country you reduce and suppress wages, hurting law abiding citizens trying<BR>> to earn a livable wage.<BR>><BR>> You also shut down honest businesses that want to pay decent wages but<BR>> cannot because the dishonest businesses can sell for less utilizing slave<BR>> labor.<BR>><BR>> I am opposed to Mexican Consulates not because they increase trade with<BR>> Mexico, or because they provide services and rights to people, but because<BR>> they enable and attract illegal laborers to the cities and areas they are<BR>> located. I don't want Idaho swarming with more illegal laborers willing to<BR>> work for lower wages than Idaho workers need to make to live in the state<BR>> year round. I don't want them tapping Idaho schools of its limited resources<BR>> and draining our welfare support. Because that is what happens when a<BR>> Mexican Consulate comes to
town.<BR>><BR>><BR>> "So the target changes every week. Immigrants. People who are<BR>> insufficiently patriotic. Opponents of Wal-Mart. Liberals. Me. The<BR>> universe conspires to deny you the success which you feel entitled."<BR>><BR>> Nope, I love immigrants. I just dislike illegal labor. I don't dislike<BR>> insufficiently patriotic people, just people that swear allegiance to<BR>> another country besides the USA and live here, I don't dislike opponents of<BR>> Wal-Mart, just the ill-informed, Not liberals, just radical liberals.<BR>><BR>> Now why do you want to be a lawyer? Don't you think there is enough pain,<BR>> injustice, and agony in the world not to be deliberately adding to it? Did<BR>> you know if the US donated all its surplus lawyers to every third world<BR>> country we would end all starvation and poverty?<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> Best Regards,<BR>><BR>> Donovan<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
Andreas Schou <OPHITE@GMAIL.COM>wrote:<BR>><BR>> > Illegal immigrants access food stamps because of their children and low<BR>> > income. They also tap out the system because they force US citizens out of<BR>> > their jobs that do qualify.<BR>><BR>> The point being that since 1996, it's illegal for undocumented<BR>> immigrants to do so. There may be underage US citizens in undocumented<BR>> families -- and undocumented immigrants can access food stamps on<BR>> those children's behalf -- but it's illegal for non-US citizens to do<BR>> so on their own behalf. I worked in a welfare office for three years.<BR>> I know these things.<BR>><BR>> Or, instead, you could read the USDA's own requirements. Here they are:<BR>><BR>> http://www.fns.usda.gov/fsp/Rules/Memo/02/POLIMGRT.HTM<BR>><BR>> > There are, in fact, many illegal aliens driving around the US. They even<BR>> > have commercial driver's licenses hauling
hazardous materials and don't<BR>> read<BR>> > a lick of English.<BR>><BR>> Sure. They're driving. But they don't have licenses. And if they have<BR>> CDLs, they also have fraudulent papers, as there is no state in the<BR>> Union willing to issue drivers' licenses to undocumented immigrants.<BR>><BR>> This is a separate issue: a criminal issue.<BR>><BR>> > "Illegal immigrants cannot receive Medicaid, Medicare, or CHIP, unless<BR>> > the state has decided to offer those services out of their own tax"<BR>> ><BR>> > Never said they did. But some government officials don't always follow the<BR>> > rules.<BR>><BR>> These three categories fill the entire set of "medical benefits,"<BR>> which you claimed that illegal immigrants can access. They cannot.<BR>> You're being disingenuous.<BR>><BR>> > "The alternative being a perpetual generational underclass of itinerant<BR>> >
farmworkers."<BR>><BR>> So, right. After spending eighteen years in the United States, and not<BR>> being able to prove themselves a Mexican citizen, you expect that<BR>> every child of illegal immigrant farmworkers is going to drive<BR>> themselves back to Mexico -- a place they've never been,a nd where<BR>> they don't know anyone -- and cli<BR>><BR>> ><BR>> > "You mean Medicare and Social Security? Illegal immigrants are required<BR>> > to pay taxes for both, but receive neither."<BR>> ><BR>> > Those aren't entitlements. Not every US citizen is entitled to them.<BR>><BR>> Medicare and Social Security are the definition of entitlement<BR>> programs. Every US citizen is entitled to access them when they reach<BR>> the age of 65.<BR>><BR>> Or (for instance) you could read the definition of the term you just<BR>> used. You can either (a) learn to use Google, or (b) find it here:<BR>>
http://www.auburn.edu/~johnspm/gloss/entitlement_program.<BR>><BR>> > Check your head if you if seriously think thousands of illegal immigrants<BR>> > visit a Mexican Consulate everyday to get an ID card that would be as<BR>> > worthless as you pretend it to be. Or if you don't think that people here<BR>> > illegally are not overrunning our tax supported social services and<BR>> > educational system. WAKE UP ANDREAS, take a trip to El Paso, LA, or<BR>> Phoenix,<BR>> > or just a day trip to Nampa. Your view is only acceptable to those that<BR>> have<BR>> > lived in a university classroom, cave, or a courtroom their whole life.<BR>> Peek<BR>> > outside into the REAL world for once and see what's going on.<BR>><BR>> Sure. I'm a law student now.<BR>><BR>> But before that, I spent a decade, in various positions, helping<BR>> people -- not immigrants, but regular born-and-bred US citizens --<BR>>
access the government's various social service programs. This was my<BR>> job, for which I got paid a princely $20-something-thousand per year.<BR>> I know something about what you're talking about, and my experience<BR>> does not at all jibe with the dump-trucks full of free money you seem<BR>> to think that people on the dole get every week.<BR>><BR>> On a more meta level, I've come to one of two conclusions:<BR>><BR>> (1) That you are Mirror Universe's Andreas. That you look exactly like<BR>> me (except with a goatee) and take the opposite position on every<BR>> possible issue only because you are made of antimatter. In that case,<BR>> I apologize for ragging on ou. This is in your nature, and you can't<BR>> help it.<BR>><BR>> Suggestion: shave the goatee.<BR>><BR>> (2) That your political philosophy pulls the worst aspects of both<BR>> liberalism and conservatism, demanding a universe with the sole<BR>> purpose of
aggrandizing you.<BR>><BR>> You come from a rich family. You have a college education. You're a<BR>> white Christian dude. You have had every opportunity to succeed. You<BR>> were born with a silver spoon stuck in your mouth, and -- somehow --<BR>> you managed to spit it out. Now you narcissistically demand that the<BR>> universe provide for you in the manner to which you wish to become<BR>> accustomed. When it fails to do so (and it apparently has) it is<BR>> merely because resources are being inefficiently allocated to people<BR>> that aren't you.<BR>><BR>> So the target changes every week. Immigrants. People who are<BR>> insufficiently patriotic. Opponents of Wal-Mart. Liberals. Me. The<BR>> universe conspires to deny you the success which you feel entitled.<BR>><BR>> Bad news. You're not. You're just like everyone else: bad things<BR>> happen to you for no good reason, and it's only human activity -- the<BR>> most
important of which being your own -- that produces justice. So<BR>> get to the back of the line. Just like everyone else.<BR>><BR>> -- ACS<BR>><BR>> =======================================================<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> http://www.fsr.net<BR>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> =======================================================<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> ________________________________<BR>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it<BR>> now.<BR><BR>=======================================================<BR>List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>http://www.fsr.net <BR>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p> 
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