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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>1. No change</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>2.It seems that your personal standard IS the issue
since you go out of your way to enumerate it and then take every opportunity to
point out instances where you are outraged at its not having been met.
Unquestionably "horror, outrage, grief, and humility" were expressed during
the course of this incident. Since you didn't detect any sack cloth and ash, nor
any self flagellation, it didn't quite meet your personal standard. Not enough
to satisfy Keely is not the same as not at all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The cartoon you mention while perhaps being in
questionable taste under the circumstances hardly meets the qualification
for "scatological."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>3.Why not go door to door and notify every household in
the greater Quad Cities area? The churches mechanism for disseminating
information is, apparently, head of household meetings. Another case of just
because it's not done your way doesn't mean it wasn't done.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>4. Again, the story was indeed disseminated, just not in
the manner that would have made you the happiest. Are we noticing a trend
here?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>5. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree here.
Technically true is the same as absolutely true. My memory is pretty good and I
recall no moment during the incident where it wasn't plain where the defendant
went to church.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>6. " I believe that....." Once again we're back to your
personal opinion. As I said before, good counsel can be had from a myriad of
sources. A license and a PhD do not give a person an exclusive franchise on good
advise.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>7. I can't imagine how questioning a blatantly false
statement (Ms. Hovey's original foolish remark) would give you the impression
that "I don't like girls." As a male, I am unqualified to comment on this topic?
Perhaps you should check in with my wife and two daughters</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial>for the straight skinny on how much I don't like them. I keep
them safely locked up in a pumpkin shell in my back yard. Watch out for the dog.
(he's a dude)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>And the extra credit question's answer will have to be,
for the most part, no. I see nothing about this faith community that makes them
any more or less "objectionable" than any of the other congregations in our
community that I have nothing but respect for. Obviously, you can't say the same
thing. Why is it that only this group is singled out for your special brand of
scrutiny? It would seem to me that many denominations would fail to live up to
the Keely Mix personal standard.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely emerinemix</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jampot@roadrunner.com
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g. crabtree</A> ; <A
title=suehovey@moscow.com href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">Sue Hovey</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:07
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] condemning
rape</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Once again, by the numbers, as you say:<BR><BR>1. Wilson
called the cops -- on that, we both agree.<BR><BR>2. My "personal
standard" for pastoral behavior during a rape scandal, while reasonable, isn't
the issue. I'm thankful that Wilson has an authority far, far above me
who will judge his attitude. As for specific examples of sarcastic humor
during what should have been a time of repentance and self-reflection, I gave
you one: the cute little cartoon about the young male "youth group
leader" ogling a young, curvaceous girl. I think I would, perhaps, have
set aside my love of snicker-snicker, sophomoric cartoon art about lusty male
ministers if I were a pastor whose congregation had been rocked by the rape of
toddlers by one of its male students at its classical Christian college.
<BR><BR>3. Why not tell the women directly? <BR><BR>4. And
why not tell the community? The media's dissemination of the story was
shoddy and tepid. The offender's home church was open and immediate
about printing his name and the nature of his crimes once those committed in
that community were revealed. Not a word from the Kirk until the story
broke on Vision, courtesy of an outraged former congregant.<BR><BR>5.
Your recollection fails you here. Wilson insisted the man was not a
member of the congregation. Technically true, and yet patently
false.<BR><BR>6. I believe that an untrained minister who holds to the
doctrines of sexuality, patriarchy, submission and hierarchy that Wilson does
should offer no more than prayer and comfort, not counseling for sex offenses,
and that only after he humbly examines his own doctrinal foundations.
The man had a licensed therapist in Lewiston. That he had a
minister here in Wilson is undisputed; the perpetrator may call him "pastor,"
but I certainly wouldn't, and don't.<BR><BR>7. "Girl-power
Christianity"? Good heavens. This is my religious faith, not a
softball team. Fortunately, though, my God loves girls who live in His
power. It's guys like you who don't like us, and yet somehow we go
on.<BR><BR>And a bonus question: Is there anything -- ANYTHING -- that
you've seen from Christ Church or its ministries or elders or pastor that
you've found at all objectionable . . . ever?
<BR><BR>Keely<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: jampot@roadrunner.com<BR>To: kjajmix1@msn.com; suehovey@moscow.com;
vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] condemning rape<BR>Date:
Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:31:03 -0700<BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Ms. Mix, Thank you for response and benevolent wishes
for my days progress. While your post in no way provides an answer to
the manner whereby a group of men tolerated and protected sexual predators,
(No surprise there. They didn't and you couldn't) it does raise a question
or two not the least of which would have to be by what authority do you feel
competent to set a minimum standard for a biblical response? That aside, It
seems to me the incident WAS dealt with inside your parameters. By the
numbers: </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>1. No possible disagreement here.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>2. Here it seems that it was your PERSONAL
standard that was not met. To assert that there was no expression of horror,
grief, etc. is simply without merit. That it didn't satisfy your
standards is no surprise. In all likelyhood nothing short of group
immolation could have, I suspect. (I would ask for a
specific example of "scatological" sarcasm from B&M but I imagine
that it would arrive in a manner similar to Ms. Hovey's response
to my initial question, either not at all or far short of the
mark.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>3. Do you really imagine that when the husbands
and fathers were informed that any of them thought it too inconsequential to
mention to their wives? Anything interesting at the head of household
meeting, dear? Gee whiz, honey there was something I was going to tell you
about but its slipped my mind. Oh well, what's for supper? I very much doubt
that any variation of that conversation took place.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>4. It would be most unseemly (to say nothing of
potentially illegal prior to trial) for a pastor to hold some sort of a
press conference in a situation such as this. The media disseminated the
story as is their job. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>5. I can't really speak to this issue since I have no
first hand knowledge but, my impression was that when asked it was made
clear that the person in question was a student at NSA and while not
technically a member of the congregation was most assuredly "one of theirs."
Nothing unethical and no pretending that there was no connection to the best
of my recollection.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>6. Woefully, breathtakingly, unqualified
to offer council? Sage advise can come from any number of sources. I
very much doubt that his pastor offered up any that was bad. Heck, even I
could make a few suggestions that the miscreant wouldn't go wrong by
following. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>7. And here we come full circle. Why would anyone feel
particularly obligated to heed your "admonishment" with regard to this
matter? Clearly you and your particular version of girl power
Christianity will never mesh with the Kirk. Trying at every turn to tear it
down utilizing innuendo, falsehoods, and
misrepresentations doesn't come across as particularly Christ like
either.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Thank you for the dialog and a pleasant afternoon to
you,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=Arial>g
</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely
emerinemix</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=suehovey@moscow.com href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">Sue
Hovey</A> ; <A title=jampot@roadrunner.com
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g. crabtree</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Tuesday, April 22, 2008 8:54 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
RE: [Vision2020] condemning rape</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Gary, you believe Sue engaged in character assassination
and bigotry by asserting that Christ Church consists of a group of
patriarchal men willing to tolerate, even protect, males in their
congregation who are sexual predators. These are her words, not
mine. I agree with her general point, but I don't really know how
they would tolerate, even protect, another sexual predator. I only
know how they acted when one was revealed. And so I'll propose a
minimum standard for responsibly, Biblically, dealing with active sexual
predators who rape children in the congregation and perhaps
elsewhere.<BR><BR>1. Tell the police, which Wilson did. <BR>2.
Express horror, outrage, grief, and humility. The public face of
Christ Church during this was defensive and arrogant; privately, on his
blog, Wilson continued the usual scatological, snarky sarcasm that he
trades in so richly. Remember the "youth minister" cartoon? In
context or out, a real knee-slapper, that.<BR>3. Then tell the
mothers, who are usually the ones who would notice trauma-driven behaviors
or odd physical changes in their children, and tell the fathers.
Wilson didn't. The male heads of households were told; it was up to
them whether or not to bring the information home to their subordinate
wives.<BR>4. Tell the community. Wilson didn't, even though
the perp lived in Moscow and presumably emerged at some point from
the Kirk social network.<BR>5. Don't deny that he's "one of
yours." Be honest here -- Wilson took pains to point out that the
man was not an official member of Christ Church or Trinity Reformed.
The man studied in the Kirk's New St. Andrews, attended weekly service at
CC, lived in a Kirk family's home as a boarder in a program overseen by
Kirk elders, came to Moscow to be part of Christ Church, and would have,
prior to the crimes, been identified as a Christ Church kind of guy.
I think that's what people mean and not the absence of official enrollment
when they say he was "from Christ Church." I think that honesty
about the man's connection to your church fellowship is what people mean
by "ethical" and "straightforward."<BR>6. As the justice system
adjudicates the case, which it did here with surprising results, be
available to comfort the families and minister grace to the
offender. Wilson believes he did that. He also counseled the
predator, something he is woefully, breathtakingly, unqualified to
do.<BR>7. Examine if there's anything in the pastor's teachings or
beliefs that might encourage bad behavior or misapprehends the Scriptures
and doctrines of the Church. In response to my admonishment that the
Kirk elders do so, one of them, our pal Dale, simply responds by making
fun of Tom Hansen. I think that wasn't quite what I meant by "sober
reflection," and I'm pretty sure Christ didn't.<BR><BR>OK, gc . . . have
at it, and have a lovely day.<BR><BR>Keely<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: suehovey@moscow.com<BR>To: jampot@roadrunner.com;
kjajmix1@msn.com; vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
condemning rape<BR>Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 01:26:16 -0700<BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>A wildly reckless
assertion!!! Character assassination and
bigotry? Coming from you, Gary, I would call it
displacement. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Sue H. </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jampot@roadrunner.com href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g.
crabtree</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=suehovey@moscow.com href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">Sue
Hovey</A> ; <A title=kjajmix1@msn.com
href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely emerinemix</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Monday, April 21, 2008 3:13 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] condemning rape</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I defy you to provide even a shred of
documentation for the wildly reckless assertion made in the final
sentence of your post. It is my understanding that when evidence of
misconduct became known within the "congregation" in question it was
dealt with promptly and in an absolutely correct manner. To claim
anything else is unsupportable character assassination and bigotry. It
is also, unfortunately, par for the course with a certain group which
prides itself on its unfailing tolerance.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=suehovey@moscow.com href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">Sue
Hovey</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely
emerinemix</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Monday, April 21, 2008 12:14 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] condemning rape</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Keely, I appreciate that you read Dale's
blog and keep us in the loop. It's important we are
called upon to remember a significant number of people in this
community are willing to twist a tragic issue and use
it as a bludgeon to attack those of us who define ourselves as
liberal. I think we shouldn't be surprised this would be his
issue now. He's representative of a group of
patriarchial men, willing to tolerate, even protect, males
in their congregation who are sexual
predators. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Sue H.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely
emerinemix</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Sunday, April 20, 2008 3:16 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
[Vision2020] condemning rape</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Visionaires,<BR><BR>The Everlasting Blogstalker,
Dale Courtney, laments today on his Right-Mind blog that Moscow's
liberals are quick to jump on the bandwagon of disapproval of the
recent revelations that young girls in the FLDS polygamist cult in
West Texas are routinely forced into sexual relationships with
older men who believe that these polygamous "celestial marriages"
are essential to the practice of their faith, while remaining
silent about things like young girls being forced to "marry" older
men in some Muslim cultures. Dale believes that the shameful
tolerance his liberal foes exhibit toward the behavior of some
Muslims is hypocritical in light of their disgust over
offshoot-Mormon group practices, and he, like a good "Christian"
libertarian man of chest, must make note of it. It seems
that we liberals just can't muster any disapproval of Islam, so
busy are we, I suppose, hating groups that call themselves
Christian. <BR><BR>Certainly Dale's worldview is energized
by the thought that he and his pals are witnesses to the
persecution of the Church from their vantage point of those
suffering under it. It's a silly assertion, of course, as is
his smug denouncement of feminized, morally bankrupt liberals who
pick and choose their objects of outrage from a tortured position
of ethical spinelessness. I am a liberal; I know of no one,
liberal or conservative, who isn't disgusted by the reality of
adult men who engage in sex with children. I'm not aware of
anyone who thinks that religion excuses the horrors that men visit
upon their victims, whether that religion is a perversion of
Christianity or a perversion of Islam. Because most of the
people I know are rational, decent people, they are angered by
child rape and outraged that it can be, and is, committed as a
sort of religious expression. Atheists and the religious are
united in believing that no God would be honored by inflicting
horror on the little ones he created.<BR><BR>I don't know if
Muhammed had a sexual relationship with a nine-year-old girl, as
Dale asserts, just as I don't know if Joseph Smith slept with
underage girls. My not being Muslim or Mormon, or part of
any group that claims to be the "true expression" of either, has
nothing to do with the sexual sin of the men each faith reveres as
prophets. I am much more concerned about my own faith and
the men who claim it, and who, as Christians, perpetuate
patriarchy, hierarchy, power, manipulation and sexism in their
homes, churches, and relationships. If, for example,
there were a Christian church in town that had witnessed one or
two specific instances of their men preying on young children or
teenage girls, I would expect that that church would reflect on
any connection between the rape committed by their young students
of patriarchy and power, sexism and sexuality, and the practices
and teaching that the predators received from their
teachers. I would expect that that church would publicly
repent of any gender-based arrogance, hierarchy, or wielding of
power it had exhibited. I would hope that its leaders would
examine a theology that has as its origin the reality of a
post-Fall seizing of ungodly power and descent into violence,
rather than the redemptive, radical justice and equality ushered
in by the Savior they claim to worship. I would pray that
such a church would see that its elevation of male power and
privilege, its defense of patriarchy, its practice of gender
hierarchy and unilateral submission, and its defensive clinging to
the ways of the world and not the fruit of the Spirit are sinful,
reflecting the depotism of evil and not the gentleness of
Christlike love. I would expect that. <BR><BR>I would
be disappointed.<BR><BR>And so I will lead the charge, if that is
indeed what Dale's asking for, by announcing that this
middle-aged, progressive, evangelical homemaker, and everyone she
knows, thinks men who sleep with girls are evil.
There. Now that the totality of liberal condemnation of rape
and pedophilia has been thusly offered to this erstwhile elder,
let's see if he and his other patriarchal heads of household pause
and examine if the perpetuation of sexual violence on the weak in
the name of religion has more to do with bad theology, teaching,
and practice than with the perceived indifference of Moscow's
liberals. It could be the start of an incredible spiritual
renewal, revolutionary in scope and profound in effect. Or,
Dale could just write this off as the emotional blather of someone
who just doesn't know her place, a position that is probably a lot
easier to undertake while enjoying the Sabbath with other puny
patriarchs. <BR><BR>I guess we'll see . . .
<BR><BR>Keely<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
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