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Once again, by the numbers, as you say:<br><br>1. Wilson called the cops -- on that, we both agree.<br><br>2. My "personal standard" for pastoral behavior during a rape scandal, while reasonable, isn't the issue. I'm thankful that Wilson has an authority far, far above me who will judge his attitude. As for specific examples of sarcastic humor during what should have been a time of repentance and self-reflection, I gave you one: the cute little cartoon about the young male "youth group leader" ogling a young, curvaceous girl. I think I would, perhaps, have set aside my love of snicker-snicker, sophomoric cartoon art about lusty male ministers if I were a pastor whose congregation had been rocked by the rape of toddlers by one of its male students at its classical Christian college. <br><br>3. Why not tell the women directly? <br><br>4. And why not tell the community? The media's dissemination of the story was shoddy and tepid. The offender's home church was open and immediate about printing his name and the nature of his crimes once those committed in that community were revealed. Not a word from the Kirk until the story broke on Vision, courtesy of an outraged former congregant.<br><br>5. Your recollection fails you here. Wilson insisted the man was not a member of the congregation. Technically true, and yet patently false.<br><br>6. I believe that an untrained minister who holds to the doctrines of sexuality, patriarchy, submission and hierarchy that Wilson does should offer no more than prayer and comfort, not counseling for sex offenses, and that only after he humbly examines his own doctrinal foundations. The man had a licensed therapist in Lewiston. That he had a minister here in Wilson is undisputed; the perpetrator may call him "pastor," but I certainly wouldn't, and don't.<br><br>7. "Girl-power Christianity"? Good heavens. This is my religious faith, not a softball team. Fortunately, though, my God loves girls who live in His power. It's guys like you who don't like us, and yet somehow we go on.<br><br>And a bonus question: Is there anything -- ANYTHING -- that you've seen from Christ Church or its ministries or elders or pastor that you've found at all objectionable . . . ever? <br><br>Keely<br><br><br><br><br><br><blockquote><hr>From: jampot@roadrunner.com<br>To: kjajmix1@msn.com; suehovey@moscow.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] condemning rape<br>Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:31:03 -0700<br><br>
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<div><font face="Arial">Ms. Mix, Thank you for response and benevolent wishes for
my days progress. While your post in no way provides an answer to the
manner whereby a group of men tolerated and protected sexual predators, (No
surprise there. They didn't and you couldn't) it does raise a question or two
not the least of which would have to be by what authority do you feel competent
to set a minimum standard for a biblical response? That aside, It seems to me
the incident WAS dealt with inside your parameters. By the
numbers: </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">1. No possible disagreement here.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">2. Here it seems that it was your PERSONAL standard
that was not met. To assert that there was no expression of horror, grief, etc.
is simply without merit. That it didn't satisfy your standards is no
surprise. In all likelyhood nothing short of group immolation could have, I
suspect. (I would ask for a specific example of "scatological" sarcasm
from B&M but I imagine that it would arrive in a manner similar
to Ms. Hovey's response to my initial question, either not at all or far
short of the mark.)</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">3. Do you really imagine that when the husbands and
fathers were informed that any of them thought it too inconsequential to mention
to their wives? Anything interesting at the head of household meeting,
dear? Gee whiz, honey there was something I was going to tell you about but its
slipped my mind. Oh well, what's for supper? I very much doubt that any
variation of that conversation took place.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">4. It would be most unseemly (to say nothing of
potentially illegal prior to trial) for a pastor to hold some sort of a press
conference in a situation such as this. The media disseminated the story as is
their job. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">5. I can't really speak to this issue since I have no
first hand knowledge but, my impression was that when asked it was made clear
that the person in question was a student at NSA and while not technically a
member of the congregation was most assuredly "one of theirs." Nothing unethical
and no pretending that there was no connection to the best of my
recollection.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">6. Woefully, breathtakingly, unqualified
to offer council? Sage advise can come from any number of sources. I very
much doubt that his pastor offered up any that was bad. Heck, even I could make
a few suggestions that the miscreant wouldn't go wrong by
following. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">7. And here we come full circle. Why would anyone feel
particularly obligated to heed your "admonishment" with regard to this matter?
Clearly you and your particular version of girl power Christianity will
never mesh with the Kirk. Trying at every turn to tear it down utilizing
innuendo, falsehoods, and misrepresentations doesn't come across as
particularly Christ like either.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Thank you for the dialog and a pleasant afternoon to
you,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">g
</font></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="kjajmix1@msn.com" href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely emerinemix</a>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b> <a title="suehovey@moscow.com" href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">Sue Hovey</a> ; <a title="jampot@roadrunner.com" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g.
crabtree</a> ; <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 22, 2008 8:54
AM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Vision2020] condemning
rape</div>
<div><br></div>Gary, you believe Sue engaged in character assassination and
bigotry by asserting that Christ Church consists of a group of patriarchal men
willing to tolerate, even protect, males in their congregation who are sexual
predators. These are her words, not mine. I agree with her general
point, but I don't really know how they would tolerate, even protect, another
sexual predator. I only know how they acted when one was revealed.
And so I'll propose a minimum standard for responsibly, Biblically, dealing
with active sexual predators who rape children in the congregation and perhaps
elsewhere.<br><br>1. Tell the police, which Wilson did. <br>2.
Express horror, outrage, grief, and humility. The public face of Christ
Church during this was defensive and arrogant; privately, on his blog, Wilson
continued the usual scatological, snarky sarcasm that he trades in so
richly. Remember the "youth minister" cartoon? In context or out,
a real knee-slapper, that.<br>3. Then tell the mothers, who are usually
the ones who would notice trauma-driven behaviors or odd physical changes in
their children, and tell the fathers. Wilson didn't. The male
heads of households were told; it was up to them whether or not to bring the
information home to their subordinate wives.<br>4. Tell the
community. Wilson didn't, even though the perp lived in Moscow and
presumably emerged at some point from the Kirk social network.<br>5.
Don't deny that he's "one of yours." Be honest here -- Wilson took pains
to point out that the man was not an official member of Christ Church or
Trinity Reformed. The man studied in the Kirk's New St. Andrews,
attended weekly service at CC, lived in a Kirk family's home as a boarder in a
program overseen by Kirk elders, came to Moscow to be part of Christ Church,
and would have, prior to the crimes, been identified as a Christ Church kind
of guy. I think that's what people mean and not the absence of official
enrollment when they say he was "from Christ Church." I think that
honesty about the man's connection to your church fellowship is what people
mean by "ethical" and "straightforward."<br>6. As the justice system
adjudicates the case, which it did here with surprising results, be available
to comfort the families and minister grace to the offender. Wilson
believes he did that. He also counseled the predator, something he is
woefully, breathtakingly, unqualified to do.<br>7. Examine if there's
anything in the pastor's teachings or beliefs that might encourage bad
behavior or misapprehends the Scriptures and doctrines of the Church. In
response to my admonishment that the Kirk elders do so, one of them, our pal
Dale, simply responds by making fun of Tom Hansen. I think that wasn't
quite what I meant by "sober reflection," and I'm pretty sure Christ
didn't.<br><br>OK, gc . . . have at it, and have a lovely
day.<br><br>Keely<br><br><br><br><br><br>
<blockquote>
<hr>
From: suehovey@moscow.com<br>To: jampot@roadrunner.com; kjajmix1@msn.com;
vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] condemning rape<br>Date:
Tue, 22 Apr 2008 01:26:16 -0700<br><br>
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<div><font face="Arial">A wildly reckless
assertion!!! Character assassination and
bigotry? Coming from you, Gary, I would call it
displacement. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Sue H. </font></div>
<blockquote dir="ltr" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="jampot@roadrunner.com" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g.
crabtree</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="suehovey@moscow.com" href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">Sue
Hovey</a> ; <a title="kjajmix1@msn.com" href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely
emerinemix</a> ; <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Monday, April 21, 2008 3:13 PM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [Vision2020] condemning rape</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font face="Arial">I defy you to provide even a shred of documentation
for the wildly reckless assertion made in the final sentence of your post.
It is my understanding that when evidence of misconduct became known
within the "congregation" in question it was dealt with promptly and in an
absolutely correct manner. To claim anything else is unsupportable
character assassination and bigotry. It is also, unfortunately, par for
the course with a certain group which prides itself on its unfailing
tolerance.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">g</font></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="suehovey@moscow.com" href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">Sue
Hovey</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="kjajmix1@msn.com" href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely
emerinemix</a> ; <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Monday, April 21, 2008 12:14 PM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [Vision2020] condemning rape</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font face="Arial">Keely, I appreciate that you read Dale's
blog and keep us in the loop. It's important we are
called upon to remember a significant number of people in this community
are willing to twist a tragic issue and use it as a
bludgeon to attack those of us who define ourselves as
liberal. I think we shouldn't be surprised this would be his issue
now. He's representative of a group of patriarchial
men, willing to tolerate, even protect, males in their
congregation who are sexual
predators. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Sue H.</font></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="kjajmix1@msn.com" href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely
emerinemix</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Sunday, April 20, 2008 3:16 PM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
[Vision2020] condemning rape</div>
<div><br></div>Visionaires,<br><br>The Everlasting Blogstalker, Dale
Courtney, laments today on his Right-Mind blog that Moscow's liberals
are quick to jump on the bandwagon of disapproval of the recent
revelations that young girls in the FLDS polygamist cult in West Texas
are routinely forced into sexual relationships with older men who
believe that these polygamous "celestial marriages" are essential to
the practice of their faith, while remaining silent about things like
young girls being forced to "marry" older men in some Muslim
cultures. Dale believes that the shameful tolerance his liberal
foes exhibit toward the behavior of some Muslims is hypocritical in
light of their disgust over offshoot-Mormon group practices, and he,
like a good "Christian" libertarian man of chest, must make note of
it. It seems that we liberals just can't muster any disapproval
of Islam, so busy are we, I suppose, hating groups that call
themselves Christian. <br><br>Certainly Dale's worldview is
energized by the thought that he and his pals are witnesses to the
persecution of the Church from their vantage point of those suffering
under it. It's a silly assertion, of course, as is his smug
denouncement of feminized, morally bankrupt liberals who pick and
choose their objects of outrage from a tortured position of ethical
spinelessness. I am a liberal; I know of no one, liberal or
conservative, who isn't disgusted by the reality of adult men who
engage in sex with children. I'm not aware of anyone who thinks
that religion excuses the horrors that men visit upon their victims,
whether that religion is a perversion of Christianity or a perversion
of Islam. Because most of the people I know are rational, decent
people, they are angered by child rape and outraged that it can be,
and is, committed as a sort of religious expression. Atheists
and the religious are united in believing that no God would be honored
by inflicting horror on the little ones he created.<br><br>I don't
know if Muhammed had a sexual relationship with a nine-year-old girl,
as Dale asserts, just as I don't know if Joseph Smith slept with
underage girls. My not being Muslim or Mormon, or part of any
group that claims to be the "true expression" of either, has nothing
to do with the sexual sin of the men each faith reveres as
prophets. I am much more concerned about my own faith and the
men who claim it, and who, as Christians, perpetuate patriarchy,
hierarchy, power, manipulation and sexism in their homes, churches,
and relationships. If, for example, there were a Christian
church in town that had witnessed one or two specific instances of
their men preying on young children or teenage girls, I would expect
that that church would reflect on any connection between the rape
committed by their young students of patriarchy and power, sexism and
sexuality, and the practices and teaching that the predators received
from their teachers. I would expect that that church would
publicly repent of any gender-based arrogance, hierarchy, or wielding
of power it had exhibited. I would hope that its leaders would
examine a theology that has as its origin the reality of a post-Fall
seizing of ungodly power and descent into violence, rather than the
redemptive, radical justice and equality ushered in by the Savior they
claim to worship. I would pray that such a church would see that
its elevation of male power and privilege, its defense of patriarchy,
its practice of gender hierarchy and unilateral submission, and its
defensive clinging to the ways of the world and not the fruit of the
Spirit are sinful, reflecting the depotism of evil and not the
gentleness of Christlike love. I would expect that.
<br><br>I would be disappointed.<br><br>And so I will lead the charge,
if that is indeed what Dale's asking for, by announcing that
this middle-aged, progressive, evangelical homemaker, and everyone she
knows, thinks men who sleep with girls are evil. There.
Now that the totality of liberal condemnation of rape and pedophilia
has been thusly offered to this erstwhile elder, let's see if he and
his other patriarchal heads of household pause and examine if the
perpetuation of sexual violence on the weak in the name of religion
has more to do with bad theology, teaching, and practice than with the
perceived indifference of Moscow's liberals. It could be the
start of an incredible spiritual renewal, revolutionary in scope and
profound in effect. Or, Dale could just write this off as the
emotional blather of someone who just doesn't know her place, a
position that is probably a lot easier to undertake while enjoying the
Sabbath with other puny patriarchs. <br><br>I guess we'll see .
. . <br><br>Keely<br><br><br><br><br><br>
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