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I believe that Tom's point was that the FLDS would be punished, with which he would have "no problem." <br><br>But one finds awe where one looks, I suppose.<br><br>Keely<br><br><br><br><br>> From: jampot@roadrunner.com<br>> To: kjajmix1@msn.com; vision2020@moscow.com; thansen@moscow.com<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] condemning rape<br>> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:57:19 -0700<br>> <br>> "Now, if Warren Jeffs wishes to relocate his FLDS "church" and its<br>> followers to Yemen, upon completion of the multitude of trials and<br>> potential subsequent punishments, I would have no problem with it."<br>> <br>> I am in awe. It seems to me you have just done a far better job of <br>> reinforcing Dale's point than anything I, or anyone from the right minded <br>> side of the slate could have.<br>> <br>> <br>> g<br>> <br>> ----- Original Message ----- <br>> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen@moscow.com><br>> To: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1@msn.com>; <vision2020@moscow.com><br>> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 4:22 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] condemning rape<br>> <br>> <br>> >I agree with you 100%,keely.<br>> ><br>> > Further more, and something that His Comb-Overness failed to gather from<br>> > the article on his blog on what must obviously be a slow-news day (even<br>> > for Blight-Mind), the court (that convened and sentenced the offender to<br>> > pay $250 in compensation) took place in Yemen. Even I, with my degree<br>> > from one of them gubmint skools, know that Yemen is outside the Nifty<br>> > Fifty (USA), and therefor not subject to our laws.<br>> ><br>> > The Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints (FLDS) compound is conveniently<br>> > located well within the jursdiction of of one of our state courts, and is<br>> > therefor bound to that jurisdiction's laws, much similar to<br>> > another "church" management here in Moscow (oops, bad example). You<br>> > following me, dale?<br>> ><br>> > Now, if Warren Jeffs wishes to relocate his FLDS "church" and its<br>> > followers to Yemen, upon completion of the multitude of trials and<br>> > potential subsequent punishments, I would have no problem with it.<br>> ><br>> > One other thing, little guy . . . The FLDS compund is NOT part of the<br>> > Mormon church (the FLDS under Warren Jeffs separated from the Mormon<br>> > churcha a long time ago), as you so knowlingly claim in your rag, another<br>> > fact that I, as a public-school educated Intolerista, ascertained from TV<br>> > news and local newspapers, just to reflect on a couple more sources you<br>> > might consider before posting any more of your unwanted opinion to that<br>> > flea-ridden rag you call a blog.<br>> ><br>> > Seeya round town, Moscow.<br>> ><br>> > Tom Hansen<br>> > Moscow, Idaho<br>> ><br>> ><br>> >><br>> >> Visionaires,<br>> >><br>> >> The Everlasting Blogstalker, Dale Courtney, laments today on his<br>> > Right-Mind> blog that Moscow's liberals are quick to jump on the<br>> > bandwagon of<br>> > disappro> val of the recent revelations that young girls in the FLDS<br>> > polygamist cult<br>> >> in West Texas are routinely forced into sexual relationships with older<br>> > men> who believe that these polygamous "celestial marriages" are<br>> > essential to<br>> > t> he practice of their faith, while remaining silent about things like<br>> > young<br>> >> girls being forced to "marry" older men in some Muslim cultures. Dale<br>> > beli> eves that the shameful tolerance his liberal foes exhibit toward the<br>> > behavi> or of some Muslims is hypocritical in light of their disgust over<br>> > offshoot-> Mormon group practices, and he, like a good "Christian"<br>> > libertarian man of<br>> >> chest, must make note of it. It seems that we liberals just can't muster<br>> > a> ny disapproval of Islam, so busy are we, I suppose, hating groups that<br>> > call> themselves Christian.<br>> >><br>> >> Certainly Dale's worldview is energized by the thought that he and his<br>> > pals> are witnesses to the persecution of the Church from their vantage<br>> > point<br>> > of> those suffering under it. It's a silly assertion, of course, as is<br>> > his<br>> > sm> ug denouncement of feminized, morally bankrupt liberals who pick and<br>> > choose> their objects of outrage from a tortured position of ethical<br>> > spinelessness> .. I am a liberal; I know of no one, liberal or<br>> > conservative, who isn't<br>> > dis> gusted by the reality of adult men who engage in sex with children.<br>> > I'm<br>> > no> t aware of anyone who thinks that religion excuses the horrors that <br>> > men<br>> > vis> it upon their victims, whether that religion is a perversion of<br>> > Christianit> y or a perversion of Islam. Because most of the people I<br>> > know are<br>> > rational> , decent people, they are angered by child rape and outraged<br>> > that it can<br>> > be> , and is, committed as a sort of religious expression. Atheists and<br>> > the<br>> > re> ligious are united in believing that no God would be honored by<br>> > inflicting<br>> >> horror on the little ones he created.<br>> >><br>> >> I don't know if Muhammed had a sexual relationship with a nine-year-old<br>> > gir> l, as Dale asserts, just as I don't know if Joseph Smith slept with<br>> > underag> e girls. My not being Muslim or Mormon, or part of any group<br>> > that claims<br>> > t> o be the "true expression" of either, has nothing to do with the sexual<br>> > sin> of the men each faith reveres as prophets. I am much more concerned<br>> > about> my own faith and the men who claim it, and who, as Christians,<br>> > perpetuate<br>> >> patriarchy, hierarchy, power, manipulation and sexism in their homes,<br>> > churc> hes, and relationships. If, for example, there were a Christian<br>> > church<br>> > in> town that had witnessed one or two specific instances of their men<br>> > preying> on young children or teenage girls, I would expect that that<br>> > church would<br>> >> reflect on any connection between the rape committed by their young<br>> > student> s of patriarchy and power, sexism and sexuality, and the<br>> > practices and<br>> > teac> hing that the predators received from their teachers. I would<br>> > expect that<br>> >> that church would publicly repent of any gender-based arrogance,<br>> > hierarchy,> or wielding of power it had exhibited. I would hope that its<br>> > leaders<br>> > woul> d examine a theology that has as its origin the reality of a post-<br>> > Fall<br>> > seiz> ing of ungodly power and descent into violence, rather than the<br>> > redemptive,> radical justice and equality ushered in by the Savior they<br>> > claim to<br>> > worshi> p. I would pray that such a church would see that its elevation<br>> > of male<br>> > po> wer and privilege, its defense of patriarchy, its practice of gender<br>> > hierar> chy and unilateral submission, and its defensive clinging to the<br>> > ways of<br>> > th> e world and not the fruit of the Spirit are sinful, reflecting the<br>> > depotism> of evil and not the gentleness of Christlike love. I would<br>> > expect that.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> I would be disappointed.<br>> >><br>> >> And so I will lead the charge, if that is indeed what Dale's asking for,<br>> > b> y announcing that this middle-aged, progressive, evangelical homemaker,<br>> > and> everyone she knows, thinks men who sleep with girls are evil.<br>> > There.<br>> > Now> that the totality of liberal condemnation of rape and pedophilia has<br>> > been<br>> >> thusly offered to this erstwhile elder, let's see if he and his other<br>> > patri> archal heads of household pause and examine if the perpetuation of<br>> > sexual<br>> > v> iolence on the weak in the name of religion has more to do with bad<br>> > theolog> y, teaching, and practice than with the perceived indifference of<br>> > Moscow's<br>> >> liberals. It could be the start of an incredible spiritual renewal,<br>> > revolu> tionary in scope and profound in effect. Or, Dale could just<br>> > write this<br>> > of> f as the emotional blather of someone who just doesn't know her place,<br>> > a<br>> > po> sition that is probably a lot easier to undertake while enjoying the<br>> > Sabbat> h with other puny patriarchs.<br>> >><br>> >> I guess we'll see . . .<br>> >><br>> >> Keely<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> _________________________________________________________________<br>> >> Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now.<br>> >> http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?<br>> > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr> esh_getintouch_042008><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > "People who ridicule others while hiding behind anonymous monikers in <br>> > chat-<br>> > room forums are neither brave nor clever."<br>> ><br>> > - Latah County Sheriff Wayne Rausch (August 21,<br>> > 2007)<br>> ><br>> > ---------------------------------------------<br>> > This message was sent by First Step Internet.<br>> > http://www.fsr.com/<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > =======================================================<br>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> > http://www.fsr.net<br>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > =======================================================<br>> > <br>> <br>> <br><br /><hr />More immediate than e-mail? <a href='http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008' target='_new'>Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger.</a></body>
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