<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16608" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>I can't see
where any of your examples are "subsidies". </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thank you very much, Ms. Nichols! That was exactly
the point I was hoping to make. None of the items I mentioned, with the
exception of the bus ride, are examples of a subsidy and the city selling
services to a business in Whitman county isn't either. Hawkins will be paying a
rate that covers the true cost of the service they receive along with an amount
built in to cover future upgrades to the system. Just like all the other
residential and commercial customers of the City of Moscow's water
dept.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Again, I appreciate your assistance in putting the
silly and incorrect notion of a "subsidy" for the Hawkins project to
rest.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=cynthiann0@mac.com href="mailto:cynthiann0@mac.com">cynthia
nichols</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jampot@roadrunner.com
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g. crabtree</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=garrettmc@verizon.net
href="mailto:garrettmc@verizon.net">Garrett Clevenger</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision
2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:16
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Smart Growth/
was Recall the city council</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I can't see where any of your examples are "subsidies". I pay
full price for my clothes, my house, my groceries---enough for all those
businesses to make a profit (sometimes an obscene profit, by the way). And
when their costs go up, so do mine. They never say to me, "boy, this has been
a tough year in the economy for you, cynthia, so we'll reduce your prices til
things get better".
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Our governments do (outrageously, IMHO) subsidize big business in that
they give them special treatment (in the form of tax breaks, tax write-offs,
cheap services, and more) even though they are making profits and COULD be
paying those taxes. In the Hawkins case, instead of using their own money to
fight Washington for water rights, instead of bearing the cost of drilling the
well, instead of having to bear the cost of disposing of their sewage, Moscow
is providing it for them--without them paying any premium price . AND they
have a contract to GUARANTEE those services. Whereas I live in Moscow and I
have NO SUCH GUARANTEE. So if the water runs low, guess who will do without ?
If the sewage treatment plant needs to be replaced, guess who'll pay for it?
Maybe the citizens of Moscow need to write up a contract like Hawkins so
that I can have that same guarantee. That might be a great legal
challenge.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>cynthia</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>On Mar 24, 2008, at 9:03 AM, g. crabtree wrote:<BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0">
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It would seem to me that if your subsidy
argument is to hold water you would have to admit to the fact that your own
life is subsidized in nearly every possible way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It's cheaper and more convenient for you to go
to Wal-Mart and buy your clothes then it is to grow cotton and raise wool
and sew your own.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It's cheaper and more convenient to buy your
gasoline from a local retailer then to drill and refine your
own.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It's cheaper and more convenient to purchase
food from the local grocer then it is for you to raise your
own.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Did you build your own house? Grow the trees?
Mill the lumber? I guess you have been subsidized by Logging company's and
carpenters.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Do you generate your own electricity or does
Avista subsidize your power and heat?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Just because it's less expensive in the short
term for Hawkins to purchase water and sewer services from Moscow
doesn't mean that they are being subsidized by Idaho taxpayers.
Infrastructure and future upgrades are paid for through the fees that are
paid by the users not taxes. Consequently, Hawkins WILL be paying its share.
No giveaway anywhere along the line that I can detect unless it's the daily
bus ride you talk about. Now there is a true subsidy. Strangely, you seem to
be cool with that particular handout. What's up with that?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message -----</FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "Garrett Clevenger" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:garrettmc@verizon.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>garrettmc@verizon.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: "vision 2020" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:16
AM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: [Vision2020] Smart Growth/ was Recall
the city council</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>g writes:<BR>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> "I know the tactic is to
repeat the lie so often it<BR>> becomes accepted fact but, Moscow is, in
fact,<BR>> subsidizing nothing."<BR>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> I would say g is
perpetuating a lie, or at least<BR>> misinformation as I think in order
to lie you have to<BR>> be aware you are wrong, because, in fact, Moscow
is<BR>> subsidizing something. <SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> By providing water and
sewer services, Moscow is<BR>> saving Hawkins $4 million in development
costs that<BR>> would be needed to build infrastructure to
receive<BR>> water and dispose of sewer. Whitman County agreed
to<BR>> fund a $10 million dollar bond to build that<BR>>
infrastructure and more. Now Whitman County will save<BR>> $4
million by not having to pay to build the water and<BR>> sewer
infrastructure. I would say Moscow is<BR>> subsidizing Whitman
County's growth, if not<BR>> necessarily Hawkins itself, because
our<BR>> infrastructure, something paid for by Moscow tax and<BR>>
rate payers, will now be stretched further, and<BR>> perhaps need
upgrades sooner, if Hawkins uses Moscow's<BR>> water and sewer
services. <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Whitman County, as far as
I can tell, is not agreeing<BR>> to give Moscow anything. Usually
subsidies expect<BR>> something in return, so perhaps this isn't a
strict<BR>> subsidy, but a give away.<BR>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Am I wrong in thinking the
new city council could have<BR>> rezoned an area in Moscow for Hawkins,
or a Super<BR>> Walmart? Not that I'd want them to do it, but
in<BR>> their negotiation with Hawkins, could that not have<BR>> been
part of the negotiation, offering instead of<BR>> selling water and
sewer, the ability to build in<BR>> Moscow? If the new council
really had Moscow's future<BR>> at heart, instead of merely development
for<BR>> development's sake, regardless if that development<BR>> will
directly compete with Moscow, it seems the<BR>> council had another
alternative: rezone somewhere in<BR>> Moscow to suit what seems to be a
need for more<BR>> shopping areas.<BR>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Keep in mind, though, that
considering Walmart is the<BR>> kind of store that will close a smaller,
older one to<BR>> build a Super Center, their intent is to garner
more<BR>> market share. They don't necessarily have the<BR>>
community's interest at heart. I think many owners of<BR>> these
types of developments who live in another<BR>> community really are
mostly interested in their bottom<BR>> line, not building
community.<BR>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>
Case in point: the owner of the Palouse Empire Mall,<BR>> who does not
live in Moscow, kicked Wheatland Express,<BR>> the bus from Pullman to
Moscow, out of the mall. They<BR>> no longer wanted the bus to stop
at the mall because<BR>> they thought too many people were parking at the
mall<BR>> to catch the bus there, regardless that their huge<BR>>
parking lot is very rarely full. I take the bus daily<BR>> and saw
many people get off the bus at the mall, and<BR>> come back with full
bags of groceries from Winco, and<BR>> other items. I'm sure the
owners of stores at the<BR>> mall are losing thousands of dollars of
business a<BR>> year since the bus no longer stops there. I'd say
the<BR>> owner of mall isn't really concerned about building<BR>>
community, on top of not caring if his tenants are<BR>> losing
business.<BR>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Now
the bus stops at Walmart, and most of those people<BR>> who get off there
are shopping at Walmart. If that<BR>> Walmart closes, I wonder if
the bus will change its<BR>> stop to Hawkins, denying Moscow the business
of<BR>> hundreds of people who come from Pullman. I doubt
the<BR>> bus would stop at both Hawkins and the PEM or another<BR>>
store near there.<BR>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> My point is, instead of
subsidizing Whitman County's<BR>> growth by allowing another state to use
our<BR>> infrastructure, the council should have had the smarts<BR>>
to take public input on such a crucial issue to insure<BR>> that our
resources are being put towards those who<BR>> really care about Moscow's
future, rather than just<BR>> making a buck.<BR>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> gclev<BR>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>
=======================================================<BR>> List
services made available by First Step Internet,<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994. <SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> <SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT><A
href="http://www.fsr.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2> <SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> <SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT><A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>
=======================================================<BR>></FONT><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>=======================================================<BR>List
services made available by First Step Internet,<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>serving the communities of the
Palouse since 1994.
<BR> <A
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN> <BR> <A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>=======================================================</DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>