<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16608" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hummmm. Well in response to your first
question, the Pledge was said for all those years without much controversy that
it was incomplete. The push to insert the words, "under God,' appears
to have originated with a group of Knights of Columbus groups in the
late 1940s. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Second: I think the general population in
1910 probably said the pledge in the same representative numbers that they do
now. I don't know how to calculate that, but if you do, tell me how it is
so obvious.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Third: Your comment, "the words 'under God'
have been in the Pledge a lot longer than they have not been in the Pledge," is
simply untrue. Do the math. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sue </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=suehovey@moscow.com
href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">Sue Hovey</A> ; <A
title=godshatter@yahoo.com href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul
Rumelhart</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> ; <A
title=donaledwards@hotmail.com
href="mailto:donaledwards@hotmail.com">donaledwards@hotmail.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 16, 2008 7:56
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Satanism Was:
Of, By</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Sue,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Obviously, the elected representatives of this country did not believe as
you state. Nor did President Eisenhower. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The general population was not saying the pledge before 1910. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Few people can claim that they remember saying the pledge without Under
God. 54 years ago, is not a recent change.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best Regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><B><I>Sue Hovey <<A
href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">suehovey@moscow.com</A>></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16608" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Donovan, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The Pledge of Allegiance was formalized in 1892
and for the next 62 years it was spoken by Americans everywhere with feeling
and patriotic accord even though it did not contain the
words, "under God." That didn't happen until 1954 when President
Eisenhower signed the proclamation into law. Many of us grew up
reciting the original words in Sunday School, elementary classrooms, and
Girl Scout meetings and we felt no less patriotic, nor did we feel the
Pledge was in some way incomplete. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I do not believe the addition of the words,
"under God," made it more appropriate or more expansive. We need to be
very careful when giving God credit for the direction this nation has chosen
throughout it's oftentimes turbulent history. Personally, I know of no
historical evidence that God ever sent anyone a message indicating a
revision of the Pledge was necessary.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sue H. </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=godshatter@yahoo.com
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul Rumelhart</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> ; <A
title=donaledwards@hotmail.com
href="mailto:donaledwards@hotmail.com">donaledwards@hotmail.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 16, 2008 6:03
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Satanism
Was: Of, By</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Paul,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You write,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"I can sympathize with the people who wish to take "Under God" out of
the <BR>Pledge. If it was simply the original wording from way back when,
it <BR>wouldn't really be a problem. However, it was placed there
relatively <BR>recently (1940's?). I think that was a mistake and should
probably be <BR>rectified."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The words, "Under God" have been in the pledge much longer than they
have not been in the pledge. Further, why is something invalid because it
was done after 1940? Are the men that fought in World War II not just as
worthy of adding to the pledge and American tradition as the original
author of the Pledge? They were put there for a reason, to reflect the
wishes and beliefs of the American people. Might I also add, that most the
vocals against the word "God" in the pledge won't say the pledge anyway.
So let the 95%+ of the population say it the way they want, not have
to say it the way the other 5% want us to say it. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"I also don't think the idea is to weed God out of our daily lives.
Just <BR>let the government stay neutral. Protecting the rights of
citizens to <BR>worship as they wish was one of the major driving forces
of the founding <BR>of this country. Keeping the government neutral was
meant to help that, <BR>not hinder it."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think it is the idea of Atheists to weed out theism, of any kind,
that is why they are called "a" theists, not pro-theists. They want to rid
us of tax supported churches, tax supported cemeteries, tax supported
chaplains in the military, and tax supported prayer of any
kind. I don't see where you get the idea that the government
should be agnostic, or neutral instead of pro-God. This is suppose to
be a representative government. The vast majority, 90% +, believe in God,
and want Him in their daily lives. Weeding Him out, as many
Atheists are trying to do, is an infringement on the rights of 90% of the
people that want an opportunity to be reminded and to pray.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I do agree that the government should be neutral on which religion
people follow, not push one over the other. But we have to have God in
this country, because otherwise we are restricting religion. Restricting
God from government is not freedom of religion, it is an annihilation of
it. Freedom of Religion, not Freedom from Religion. <BR><BR>Best
Regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><B><I>Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">I
would like to split what you are saying into two separate subjects,
<BR>because I have a different response for each. The two subjects are
<BR>Church and State, and Overly Aggressive Political
Correctness.<BR><BR>I can sympathize with the people who wish to take
"Under God" out of the <BR>Pledge. If it was simply the original wording
from way back when, it <BR>wouldn't really be a problem. However, it was
placed there relatively <BR>recently (1940's?). I think that was a
mistake and should probably be <BR>rectified. Like Chas, though, I don't
consider it worth the effort. I <BR>also don't care much about the "In
God We Trust" on the currency. It <BR>would spend the same way if it
said "In Allah We Trust" or "In Big Juju <BR>We Trust". The thing that
kills me about this topic is that if <BR>Christianity was a minority
religion and some other religion was being <BR>favored in our classrooms
and on our currency, they would all be up in <BR>arms. That's the reason
Church and State need to be separated.<BR><BR>On the topic of political
correctness, I can agree. Although I <BR>celebrate the Winter Solstice
with probably the same amount of fervor as <BR>your average Christian
celebrates Christmas, I don't care much if <BR>someone say "Merry
Christmas" to me. I take it in the spirit it was <BR>given. If someone
wishes me a happy Kwanzaa, I'll take it the same way.<BR><BR>I also
don't think the idea is to weed God out of our daily lives. Just <BR>let
the government stay neutral. Protecting the rights of citizens to
<BR>worship as they wish was one of the major driving forces of the
founding <BR>of this country. Keeping the government neutral was meant
to help that, <BR>not hinder it. <BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>Donovan Arnold
wrote:<BR>> Satan's greatest trick was to convince people that he
doesn't exist. I <BR>> think Satanism, is, for the most part, the
same as Atheism.<BR>> <BR>> What Satan wants is to remove God, all
things related to him, and in <BR>> our daily thoughts completely. To
make us about ourselves, and the <BR>> world we live in.<BR>>
<BR>> Atheists are best at doing this. They have made God very
unpopular in <BR>> this country. You cannot even say, "Merry
Christmas" without <BR>> subjecting yourself to a potential
lawsuit.<BR>> <BR>> Separation of Church from State was designed
to protect our religion <BR>> from being indoctrinated and controlled
by the government, not to weed <BR>> God out of our daily lives and
thinking, which is what is happening, <BR>> sadly, all over this
country, and you can see the negative impact it <BR>> is
having.<BR>> <BR>> Best Regards,<BR>> <BR>>
Donovan<BR>><BR>> */Chasuk <CHASUK@GMAIL.COM>/*
wrote:<BR>><BR>> > Also, you may want to read up on modern-day
Satanists. I know a<BR>> couple<BR>> > of them. There is a big
difference between LaVey Satanism and the<BR>> >
mostly-non-existent Luciferian Satanism portrayed in bad B<BR>>
movies. It's<BR>> > not my cup of tea, but it has some aspects to
it that I can respect.<BR>><BR>> I've known several Satanists, and
most of them were just atheists with<BR>> a peculiar sense of humor,
combined with a desire to shock. None of<BR>> them were the B movies
types.<BR>><BR>>
=======================================================<BR>> List
services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>>
http://www.fsr.net<BR>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>>
=======================================================<BR>><BR>><BR>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try
<BR>> it now. <BR>> <HTTP: us.rd.yahoo.com
evt="51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20"><BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<DIV>
<HR SIZE=1>
Looking for last minute shopping deals? <A
href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51734/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping">Find
them fast with Yahoo! Search.</A>
<DIV>
<HR>
<DIV></DIV>=======================================================<BR> List
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<BR>
http://www.fsr.net
<BR>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<P>
<HR SIZE=1>
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. <A
href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ">Try
it now.</A></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>