<DIV>Chas,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your argument is a gross misinterpretation of what I said, please give me just an ounce of credit. I never said it was the individuals fault what happens to them, as you are implying. I said it was the fault of humans what happens to humans. If a woman is raped, it is not because of God, but because of the person that raped her exercising free will. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If a little girl is starved to death because the government prevented her from accessing the food and medicine she needed, it is the fault of humans, not the girl's, but a society of humans.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No, God didn't tell people to go build a crappy housing unit on a major active fault line. People did this knowing that the buildings would fall, and people entered them knowing they would fall. This is just common knowledge. They do it because they are greedy, or society (other humans) force them to live in substandard
housing units. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Almost all of unnecessary human suffering is the result of human society or individuals doing something stupid to others or themselves or their environment. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You can try to move to more complex issues, like famine, illness, and accidents. But if you follow the line, it is usually the result of someone, or a society disobeying and doing something wrong that God told them not to do, or something that was clearly against the knowledge of humankind at the time. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is little suffering in this world that is not the fault of some human or a group of humans someone where at some point in time doing something they were told not to do, or was against the common knowledge of people at the time. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>God does allow suffering, he allows it ONLY because he allows free will. We cannot have BOTH free will and end suffering because man is evil and
greedy. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Best Regards,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Donovan </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Chasuk <chasuk@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">SPOILER WARNING: This message contains elements which may be consider<BR>sacrilegious. Read at your peril. Don't blame me if you continue<BR>reading and are unhappy about the content. Remember, you do have free<BR>will.<BR><BR>Donovan,<BR><BR>if God had given the descendants of Adam and Eve indestructible maps<BR>of all of the unsafe places to live in the world, and 21st century<BR>tips on how to build tremor proof housing, first aid training, etc.,<BR>then you might have a point. But he didn't, so you don't.<BR><BR>Oh... he did? Pardon me, your point is perfectly valid, then.<BR><BR>Wait... no, it isn't. Your "point" is complete bollocks, and you know it.<BR><BR>I can picture the
conversation now:<BR><BR>Dying 6-year old girl, stricken with a terminal parasitic infection:<BR>"I hurt, Jesus."<BR><BR>Jesus: "Well, it is your fault, you know. Don't go blaming me or my Father."<BR><BR>Dying 6-year old girl, stricken with a terminal parasitic infection: "My fault?"<BR><BR>Jesus: "Yes. You chose to go swimming in that contaminated river.<BR>You have free will."<BR><BR>I am not omniscient or omnipotent, but I could have developed a better<BR>plan than one which involved torturing children. And so could you, or<BR>J Ford, or Pat Kraut. That's what comes with being omniscient and<BR>omnipotent, you can devise perfect plans. Oh, wait! If I was God, I<BR>would understand that torturing children was a necessary part of the<BR>perfect plan!<BR><BR>My apologies, Donovan. The omniscient and omnipotent God created us<BR>and put us on this world, which he also created, where he knew in<BR>advance we would experience pain and suffering. But the pain and<BR>suffering
are our fault, because he gave us free will. If this seems<BR>perverse or incomprehensible to me, it's because God created me with a<BR>limited intellect. Is this limitation his fault, or my fault? Do I<BR>also get blamed for God's creation?<BR><BR>Ah, the ineffable mysteries of God!<BR><BR>=======================================================<BR>List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>http://www.fsr.net <BR>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p> 
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