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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I meant 2008 February 08 Sorry the format I used confused
you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>To not get how I arrived at fair rate would mean you
believe that the rate we all pay now is some sort of sweet heart deal and
that three times that amount would still be a rate that was less than the cost
of delivery. Judging by my water bill I doubt that is the case.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I don't understand your point regarding the
confidentiality agreement. Just because Wayne "didn't know he was going to have
to sign such a thing" doesn't mean that it was in any way inappropriate. In the
words of your beloved mayor (from the article previously discussed) "Chaney said
she was not surprised that the mediation session was kept confidential. To
disclose things in a legal dispute would be counterproductive to Moscow's
interests."
<P> </P>
<P>g</P></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=privatejf32@hotmail.com href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">J
Ford</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:22
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Advanced Real
Estate Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Em, did you mean 8 Feb 08 <BR><BR>or <BR><BR>2 Aug 08 (in which
case - WOW! do you have a pipeline or what?!)<BR><BR>And you seem to be
reading something that isn't in your quote....he says "as much as three times
the in-town rate" which I gather in reference to the water rate. I don't
get the local rag nor have access to the web copy...if you'd care to post it
like Saundra and others do when using that as a source, that'd be great.
Not sure how you get "fair rate" outta that, but oh well.<BR><BR>Still don't
see where signing a "Confidentiality Agreement" is allowed given the State
Laws on open meetings and other concerns others on this BB have
mentioned. Heck, even Wayne said he didn't know he was going to have to
sign such a thing until the day/minute of his being taken to the meeting....or
was he mis-stating the facts during his comments as posted on "Moscow
Cares"?<BR><BR>J :]<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: jampot@roadrunner.com<BR>To: privatejf32@hotmail.com;
vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:44:28 -0800<BR>Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Advanced Real Estate Question<BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>From the Moscow Pullman Daily News web site on
080208:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>"The current rate for businesses outside the city
limits is twice that of businesses in town, Krauss said. The rate for
Hawkins could be as much as three times the in-town rate."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Your second question is also answered in the same
article by your beloved mayor, Nancy Chaney.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Reading, it's FUNdamental</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=privatejf32@hotmail.com href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">J
Ford</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Wednesday, February 13, 2008 7:11 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] Advanced Real Estate Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Questions, G....how do you know "<FONT face=Arial
size=2>Hawkins will be paying fair market value for the services they
receive."...you have some kinda insider that is feeding this to you or is
this just a rough guess on your part? You sure seem to be the
"man-in-the-know" about things these days.<BR><BR>Since when does a
Council have to sign a "Confidentiality Agreement", in secret, not being
given any kind of notice before-hand that this will be required of them,
in order to discuss this with kind of thing with a developer? What
were they afraid would be disclosed and opposed to by the public?
The other developments (with the exception of WalMart) in the City have
all been out in the open and opened to public comment as it should
be. Why the change-up?<BR><BR>Just asking.<BR></FONT><BR>J
:]<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: jampot@roadrunner.com<BR>To: garrettmc@verizon.net;
vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 06:15:07
-0800<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Advanced Real Estate Question<BR><BR>
<STYLE>
</STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Just a couple of points. Everyone is aware
of the old saw "repeat a lie often enough..." Well, droning on about
Moscow "subsidizing" the new development surely falls into this
category. Hawkins will be paying fair market value for the services they
receive. Future infrastructure improvements brought about by increased
demand are funded through the monies collected from rate payers for
services and not from general tax revenues. As a result Hawkins will be
paying its own way right on down the line.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The next point is about the "need" for this
development. This is not a public works project. There does not have to
be a determination of need before an entrepreneur can decide to take a
risk with their own land and assets in hopes of making a profit. I know
that there is a sizable group here in Moscow that thinks that all
decisions should be made collectively but thankfully we have not quite
yet reached that unpleasant point.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Lastly, I have asked this question before
but I'll give it one more shot. Since every anti-development writer has
bemoaned the councils "need to hide their negotiations" what is it that
you think has been kept from us? We have been presented with the
final result, all we missed was the sausage making. Is it your
contention that something illegal took place? If so, then just say it
plain. Making vague and insupportable insinuations is a cheap tool for
carving out a weak argument.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "Garrett Clevenger" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:garrettmc@verizon.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>garrettmc@verizon.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 4:27
PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: [Vision2020] Advanced Real Estate
Question</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=Arial size=2>> Ted writes:<BR>> <BR>> "there are critical
issues regarding this Hawkins<BR>> development that are not even on
the radar in this<BR>> discussion, such as mitigation of CO2<BR>>
emissions related climate change, and those eventual<BR>> massive
economic impacts, and the economic<BR>> consequences of fossil fuel
depletion, as it relates<BR>> to the long term viability of sprawling
suburban<BR>> development, when the fossil fueled fleet of
vehicles<BR>> that deliver to, service and allow consumer access
to<BR>> this development, becomes very expensive to operate."<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> I reply:<BR>> <BR>> Ted has a really good points
here (and questions<BR>> further in his post)<BR>> <BR>> After
being dissed by the council regarding the noise<BR>> ordinance in
such an unscrupulous way, my tolerance<BR>> for council actions that
seem underhanded is "zero." <BR>> This is something that motivated me
to look into the<BR>> Hawkins deal a bit deeper. Considering
the secret<BR>> negotiations and potential cost to Moscow, this
is<BR>> something everybody should look into before deciding<BR>>
one way or the other.<BR>> <BR>> I admit I am against the mall for
my own personal<BR>> reason as I think it's a waste of resources just
to<BR>> sell cheap stuff made overseas (another way this<BR>>
drains on our national economy) Most of the big box<BR>> stores
are making such profit because they exploit the<BR>> labor and
resources of other countries. <BR>> <BR>> I'll provide my
argument against it as fairly as I<BR>> can, but now you know that I
have initial<BR>> philosophical disagreements with it to begin
with.<BR>> <BR>> Hawkins is proposing a 714,000 square foot mall
right<BR>> on our border near the Palouse Empire Mall. They
say<BR>> Lowe's is their anchor store.<BR>> <BR>> The Palouse
Empire Mall is 384,000 square feet.<BR>> <BR>> What I wonder is
why people need so much more mall<BR>> space? How do they
figure investing in this thing<BR>> will bring them profits?
According to the Spokesman<BR>> on 2/9, "The development might cost
$60 million to<BR>> $100 million"<BR>> <BR>> $100 million just
to pay it back. They are putting it<BR>> near Moscow because
they want Moscow's business. So<BR>> that potentially is at
least $100 of lost revenue to<BR>> Moscow businesses.<BR>>
<BR>> Home Depot recently withdrew their proposal to build<BR>> in
Moscow, and apparently the potential Lowe's did not<BR>> influence
their decision. >From what I can tell, they<BR>> pulled out
because they didn't think Moscow would pull<BR>> in enough revenue to
cover their costs.<BR>> <BR>> So, if Home Depot feels Moscow is
not profitable, it<BR>> makes you wonder why Lowe's, and the whole
Hawkins<BR>> mall, thinks they can actually make this
profitable.<BR>> <BR>> Perhaps the fact that the council voted to
provide<BR>> corporate welfare to the predatory developers on
the<BR>> other side of the border tips the balance in their<BR>>
favor. And the fact that Whitman county is<BR>> subsidizing
$9.1 million to pay for the Hawkins public<BR>>
infrastructure.<BR>> <BR>> If you are someone who supports the
mall, I suggest<BR>> you ask yourself, "Is building Hawkins worth it
and<BR>> needed? Do you feel comfortable knowing Moscow
will<BR>> be subsidizing that development, Moscow's competitor?
<BR>> Do you think all the environmental consequences, such<BR>>
as water use, land development (How many tons of dirt<BR>> are going
to have to be moved on that hill to make it<BR>> flat and buildable?)
and fuel use really is necessary<BR>> just to have more stores that
more than likely will<BR>> sell the same things other stores in the
region sell?<BR>> <BR>> Finally, why can't the process be more
transparent and<BR>> democracy-friendly? The fact that the city
feels the<BR>> need to hide their negotiations seems suspicious
to<BR>> me.<BR>> <BR>>>From what I can tell, I have even
more reasons to not<BR>> support this mall based on the evidence I've
been able<BR>> to find, and I particularly resent the city making
the<BR>> taxpayers of Moscow subsidize Hawkins.<BR>> <BR>>
Sincerely,<BR>> <BR>> Garrett Clevenger<BR>> <BR>>
=======================================================<BR>> List
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the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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size=2>
<BR>> </FONT><A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>
=======================================================</FONT>
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