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How much power will you give the state to take apart families, Pat? What if a liberal government decides a parent should lose his or her child because of their conservative political views? Is that okay with you?<br><br>I say that should never happen. The only relevant factor is the fitness of the parent. I hope you're the only one on this site who would take a child away from his father because of how they view the father's politics. I have no respect for that approach.<br><br>Sunil<br><br>> To: vision2020@mail-gw.fsr.net<br>> From: pkraut@moscow.com<br>> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 23:51:47 +0000<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] child forced back/was Romney drops out!?<br>> <br>> Those 'circumstances' sent this child to live in a communist country!! <br>> The mother died to give him freedom and they had no respect for that and <br>> neither does anyone else on this site because I am the first one to <br>> mention it and it was about her for me. And his hope for the future.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> > Inasmuch as I continue to support Hillary Clinton for President for<br>> > reasons that may not appeal to anyone's political logic but mine, and<br>> > because I was so vehement over the Gerry Weitz attempt to refashion the<br>> > world in his image, I have tried to tone it down a bit and be much more<br>> > my lovable non-contentious self; however, I find I must agree with Sunil<br>> > on this one. Had it been any other child in any other circumstance the<br>> > right wing zealots who champion "the father as head of the family" world<br>> > view would have been right there with the police to be sure he was<br>> > returned to his rightful owner. <br>> > <br>> > I also believe a more visable role for Bill Clinton in Gore's<br>> > campaign just might have been enough to keep the Rs from stealing that<br>> > election. I think Gore was hurt, not helped, by his refusal to involve<br>> > Clinton. <br>> > <br>> > One question, too: Doesn't the Idaho sunshine law cover city council<br>> > actions? If so, how could they legally vote in a closed session to sign<br>> > a contract with Hawkins?<br>> > <br>> > Sue H. <br>> > ----- Original Message ----- <br>> > From: Sunil Ramalingam <br>> > To: vision2020@moscow.com <br>> > Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 9:47 AM<br>> > Subject: [Vision2020] child forced back/was Romney drops out!?<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > I know I'm sidetracking...<br>> > <br>> > I agree that returning a child to his father may have caused political<br>> > problems for Gore had he accepted help from Bill Clinton in 2000. But I<br>> > do disagree that 'they forced that Cuban child back to Castro.'<br>> > <br>> > They returned a child to his father after his mother's death. A child<br>> > should be with his or her natural parents unless there's a showing that<br>> > the parents are unfit. There was no such showing in the Gonzalez case. <br>> > Instead we had politics sticking its ugly head into family business,<br>> > just as we later saw in the Terry Schiavo case.<br>> > <br>> > Extended family, wherever they're located, don't get to grab someone<br>> > else's child unless the parent/s are unfit. We wouldn't allow the<br>> > Beverly Hills relatives to grab a Moscow/Potlatch/Deary child from a<br>> > parent just because the relatives had a big house with a cement pond.<br>> > <br>> > Sunil<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> -> ---<br>> > Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:04:17 -0800<br>> > From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>> > To: sdredge@yahoo.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Romney drops out!?<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > Scott,<br>> > <br>> > In 2000 Bill Clinton had a 42% approval rating. Campaigning with<br>> > Clinton in 2000 would have been a kiss of death. He had an even lower<br>> > rating in Florida because they forced that Cuban child back to Castro. <br>> > <br>> > Yes, Gore lost the election because Florida's Secretary of State,<br>> > Kathleen Harris, certified the wrong set of popular votes giving the<br>> > electoral votes to Bush instead of Gore. Also, Nader split the<br>> > Democratic vote in Vermont, giving the state to Bush. Gore didn't lose<br>> > the election in 2000, it was stolen from him, and Nader made it<br>> > possible. Nader doesn't have issues he is concerned with, he is only<br>> > concerned about himself. The environment has been demolished and set<br>> > back decades because Bush was allowed into office. <br>> > <br>> > Best Regards,<br>> > <br>> > Donovan <br>> > <br>> > Scott Dredge <sdredge@yahoo.com> wrote:<br>> > It's a stretch to suggest that Nader sabotaged the 2000 election. <br>> > The reason Al Gore lost was because of Al Gore himself. Under the<br>> > categories of coulda, woulda, shoulda, Gore coulda had Bill Clinton<br>> > campaigning for him instead of distancing himself from Clinton. And<br>> > Bill Clinton knows how to run a successful campaign.<br>> > <br>> > I'd like to see a Clinton/Obama ticket running against a<br>> > McCain/anybody ticket. Also, it doesn't particularly matter much to me<br>> > which ticket wins, I'm just looking forward to the regime change even<br>> > though George W. Bush is basically neutered at this stage.<br>> > <br>> > -Scott<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > ----- Original Message ----<br>> > From: Ted Moffett <starbliss@gmail.com><br>> > To: Garrett Clevenger <garrettmc@verizon.net><br>> > Cc: vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 1:36:56 PM<br>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Romney drops out!?<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > On 2/8/08, Garrett Clevenger <garrettmc@verizon.net> wrote:<br>> > <br>> > Edwards would be good, as I like what he says, but my<br>> > preference would be Ralph Nader, who may very well<br>> > campaign for President. Appealing to Progressives is<br>> > good with me, despite whatever baggage Nader may have<br>> > (and really, who doesn't have baggage?)<br>> > <br>> > Nader has a record of working on changing America for<br>> > the better for 40 years. He is well connected to the<br>> > activist community, and engaging activists is key to<br>> > changing our country from it's disastrous course. An<br>> > Obama/Nader ticket sounds sweet to me.<br>> > <br>> > gclev<br>> > <br>> > Many progressives begged Nader to drop out of the 2000<br>> > presidential race, due to the potential of splitting the Democratic vote<br>> > harming Gore's chances. We all know the result. Nader helped put Bush<br>> > in the White House in 2000. Nader's Florida votes alone gave Florida's<br>> > electoral votes to Bush, as the vote count actually was counted, though<br>> > we also know that absent illegal voter disenfranchisement, deliberately<br>> > pushed by Florida's Secretary of State and Bush supporter Katherine<br>> > Harris, Gore would have won Florida, even with Nader's participation.<br>> > <br>> > Republican operatives were running ads supporting Nader's 2000<br>> > candidacy, knowing this would hurt Gore. And Nader knew this.<br>> > <br>> > Nader even argued that a Bush presidency might be good for the<br>> > nation in the long run, given that Bush would create such a back lash<br>> > against his policies that progressives in the long run would become more<br>> > unified and motivated. <br>> > <br>> > But as far as I am concerned, given the damage of the Bush<br>> > administration, Nader's 2000 presidential run was an irresponsible<br>> > application of idealistic principles over sensible practical politics,<br>> > resulting in wounds that may not heal for decades. The pending US<br>> > Supreme Court nominations in 2000 alone were enough of a reason for<br>> > Nader to withdraw to allow Gore the best chance of a win. Nader and<br>> > everyone knew there was zero chance of Nader taking the White House. <br>> > His presidential run did not even result in a stronger party base<br>> > supporting Nader or those who support his policies. His supporters are<br>> > more off the radar now than in 2000.<br>> > <br>> > I recall hearing from Nader supporters in 2000 how Gore and Bush<br>> > both represented corporate big money, and entrenched elitist Washington<br>> > power, and were not that different. Well, we have seen that however<br>> > much this was true, there were substantial differences between Gore and<br>> > Bush that would have taken the USA in very different directions on<br>> > critical issues, the invasion of Iraq and climate change, for example. <br>> > I do not believe Gore would have supported the invasion and occupation<br>> > of Iraq, and he would have began to address climate change while the<br>> > Bush administration was in denial, backing big oil and energy interests,<br>> > who did not want to address climate change for obvious financial<br>> > reasons.<br>> > <br>> > Nader would be a terrible choice for a VP candidate under Obama. <br>> > I lost respect for him as a politician after his sabotage of the 2000<br>> > presidential election. This showed he is not willing to compromise when<br>> > the overall good of the nation is at stake. <br>> > <br>> > Ted Moffett<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > =========================> =========================> =====<br>> > List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> > http://www.fsr.net <br>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > <br>> > =========================> =========================> =====<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > =========================> =========================> =====<br>> > List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> > http://www.fsr.net <br>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > <br>> > =========================> =========================> =====<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> -> ---<br>> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> -> -----<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > =========================> =========================> =====<br>> > List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> > http://www.fsr.net <br>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > <br>> > =========================> =========================> =====<br>> =====<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> ---------------------------------------------<br>> This message was sent by First Step Internet.<br>> http://www.fsr.com/<br>> <br>> <br>> =======================================================<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> http://www.fsr.net <br>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> =======================================================<br></body>
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