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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Borders are the dominion of
those who have the power to create them, hold them, and
enforce them. I'm not sure what the fact that the US/Mexican border has
shifted several times since 1819 and the Adams/Onis treaty with Spain has
to do with presidential candidates having a policy regarding enforcing the law
at the current border, much less the inevitability of western Europeans
displacing the stone age indigs during our countries formative
years.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I don't remember saying anything about "rounding up and
deporting" illegal aliens and I don't recall any of the candidates in question
espousing any such plan either. The simple notion that we should have some level
of control over our borders is hardly the antithesis of an evangelicals
understanding of the Gospel in fact, I think it would be quite the opposite. It
would seem to me to be much more humane to tightly control the border and allow
an orderly flow of workers in from the south. This would prevent them from
risking their lives on dangerous desert/river crossings, deadly dealings with
verminous coyotes and drug dealers, and assorted forms of victimization that
arise from living in the shadows once they are here.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I'm sorry if you didn't care for my breaking into your
home analogy but, there is no question but what your "undocumented immigrants"
start off their sojourn in this country by committing a crime and it's not a
given that illegals bring more to this country then they take. The health care
crisis in the border states puts your assertion that these folks bring nothing
but "overall economic good" into question. The fact that huge amounts of US
dollars flow back into Mexico (est. 20 Billion in 2005) belies your claim with
regard to their being good little consumers who benefit our economy. If
these folks want to follow the rules and "move in next to me" great. I like
mariachi music and they will be plenty welcome at the neighborhood
picinics. If they make it I'll be happy but please don't make me
out to be the bad guy if I'm not willing to overlook violations of the
law and am somewhat reluctant to subsidize their stab at the American
dream to the detriment of those who played by the rules.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely emerinemix</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jampot@roadrunner.com
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g. crabtree</A> ; <A
title=privatejf32@hotmail.com href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">J Ford</A>
; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 04, 2008 9:07
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] Iowa caucus
stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Finally, Gary. Something we have in common -- neither of
us are Bible scholars. But since that's not enough for a meaningful
friendship, I'll answer the rest of your post. Your analogy of the thief
breaking into my home is entirely inconsistent. <BR><BR>First,
though, a note here on respecting sovereign borders -- this is one of the most
ironic points in the argument against illegal immigrants. A review of
history would offer evidence that much of what we call Texas, New Mexico, and
Arizona were largely part of Mexico until U.S. interests -- would "hegemony"
be too kind? "Invasion"? -- scooped up the northern states.
Arguments of the U.S.A.'s sovereign nation status ring a little hollow, too,
considering the enormous land grab from indigenous people that we call
Colonial America and the Western Expansion.<BR><BR>Undocumented workers who
cross over looking for, and finding, paid work are not stealing from you, nor
have they "entered your home" to do so. While it's true that some
of your tax money does pay for health care for people who have immigrated
illegally (their children, usually -- adults have to keep working through
illness), your tax burden is also reduced by the amount of taxes immigrants
pay when they buy things to feed, clothe, and secure their families
here. Immigrants pay more and buy more than they receive from
social services. The notion that all illegal immigrants can and should be
rounded up and deported is as absurd as it is cruel, and you'll notice that
just about the only voices calling out for such an idea are people who have no
contact, really, with anyone whose status is illegal. Landlords,
employers, and businesses recognize that the overall economic good brought
about by 12 million workers and consumers, the majority of whom are decent
people trying to support their families and themselves, more than argues for
the devastation to business when an entire population is shuttled out
overnight. They've not "broken into your home," Gary, as much as they've
moved in next to you. If they make it, they make it -- but you're not
suffering from their being there, although some of our more racist, nativist
readers might, just because they couldn't get in on the anti-immigrant
sentiment of the early 20th century, I suppose.<BR><BR>That said, my comments
about the Gospel stand. I understand some of the opposition to illegal
immigration, but the argument has become much less against immigration than it
is against immigrants. And for religious people to settle on that
without an examination of issues or conscience is
deplorable.<BR><BR>Keely<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: jampot@roadrunner.com<BR>To: kjajmix1@msn.com;
privatejf32@hotmail.com; vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
Iowa caucus stuff<BR>Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 06:57:29 -0800<BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>It seems to me that your notion of the Gospel with
regard to illegal aliens is flawed. Do you believe that should a thief break
into your home it's your obligation to give him a hot meal and pay to have
the hand he cut breaking your window stitched up? Maybe some dental care for
him and his family while he's there? Heck as long as he's sitting on your
sofa why not arrange for a little in state tuition at the local diploma mill
and offer to pay expenses not covered by grants. By my reckoning it's
not Christian charity if my compassion is forcibly extracted at the point of
a gun, be it in the form of increased taxes by the government or an
actual felon with a firearm. Charity should be an individual thing from the
heart. Also, I'm no biblical scholar but I'm fairly sure that the Bible does
not preclude a sovereign country having secure borders.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely
emerinemix</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=privatejf32@hotmail.com href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">J
Ford</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:06 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] Iowa caucus stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>My point wasn't that doctrine has a place in a presidential
campaign, but that I thought it was sad that so many conservative
evangelical Christians find confirmation and comfort in their faith by
being pissed off at undocumented immigrants.
<BR><BR>Keely<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: <A
href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">privatejf32@hotmail.com</A><BR>To:
<A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>Date:
Thu, 3 Jan 2008 19:03:14 -0800<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Iowa caucus
stuff<BR><BR>
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I have to ask - why would any of the Gospel be part of a candidate's
priority? I mean, if we get in a fundamentalist such as Doug -
that just sets me teeth on edge. <BR><BR>No matter what candidate
wins in the end, it should be the benefit of the entire country, no
matter a person's income, that is priority. We should be
concentrating on getting our country up and running again, getting OUR
kids fed, OUR people's medical needs met, OUR country's goods sold,
etc. The more money and efforts we expend on the rest of the world
just seems to be going down the drain and the only return we are seeing
is OUR people constantly being targeted for killing, maiming,
destruction of all sorts and measures. <BR><BR>Our country must
get back to protecting what's ours and then we can offer help to those
in other parts of the world with what's left.<BR><BR>Sorry for the
hard-nose approach, but really, after fighting and seeing my friends die
for OUR country only to see the Administration/Powers-that-be give it
all way, is getting old and needs to stop if we are to survive this
century in one piece. <BR><BR>J :]<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: kjajmix1@msn.com<BR>To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Date: Thu, 3
Jan 2008 18:04:45 -0800<BR>Subject: [Vision2020] Iowa caucus
stuff<BR><BR>
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CNN projects Mike Huckabee as the GOP caucus winner in Iowa, followed
by Romney, then Thompson. On the Democratic side, Edwards, Obama
and Clinton are fairly evenly matched and only Bill Richardson has
made any statistically notable waves among the second-tier
candidates.<BR><BR>I've been for Edwards since he announced, and while
I would be happy with any of the Democrats (except for Kucinich
and Gravel), I would be ecstatic if we had an Edwards/Obama or
Edwards/Richardson, or an Obama/???, ticket in 2008. And two
great things happen on January 20, 2009 -- my son turns 20 (he was
born on the final day of the Reagan administration) and the days of
the Bush presidency are no more. <BR><BR>On a final note, I'm
dismayed that several commentators have noted that the GOP voters who
identify as evangelicals consider illegal immigration their top
issue. It would be wonderful if their top concern was justice
and opportunity for the poor, but I'm guessing that the gospel of
Glenn Beck, Lou Dobbs, Laura Ingraham and Pat Buchanan has trumped the
Gospel of that other guy . . . <BR><BR>Keely<BR><BR><BR><BR>
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