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I would add here that we are all free to associate with, lend our support to, and publicly defend anyone we want. Others are free to criticize those associations, but the bottom line here is that in all things, and especially those of an ecclesiastical nature, we are and should be understood in large part by the company we keep, the causes we applaud, and the culture and conduct we embrace and affirm.<br><br>Keely<br><br><br>> Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 17:56:58 -0800<br>> From: sslund_2007@verizon.net<br>> To: chasuk@gmail.com; thansen@moscow.com<br>> CC: vision2020@moscow.com<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Blight-Mind Show-n-Tell<br>> <br>> Hi Chas,<br>> <br>> Nice to see you back :-)<br>> <br>> In part, you wrote:<br>> "Most of the Kirker congregants don't support any of their leader's<br>> nonsense, and I know this because I've taken the time to get to know them."<br>> <br>> That's an interesting observation and the *opposite* of my experiences with<br>> the Kirkers I've gotten to know. The Kirkers I've gotten to know absolutely<br>> support "their leader's nonsense" hook, line, and sinker. I don't think<br>> it's appropriate to trade names, though.<br>> <br>> Almost always, they're sincerely shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that I'm<br>> familiar with Luther, Calvin, Rushdoony et al and am therefore not . . .<br>> susceptible to the spin they'd like me to swallow. They're shocked when I<br>> have reasoned responses, and they almost always suggest that Doug Wilson<br>> could make things clear for me if only I'd "meet" with him. I'm just<br>> misunderstanding or misinterpreting things since I've not had the benefit of<br>> Wilson's scholarly tutelage.<br>> <br>> <snort><br>> <br>> If, as you seem to believe, most of the Kirkers "don't support any of their<br>> leader's nonsense," then why don't they speak out? Why do they keep<br>> attending a church lead by a man whose "nonsense" they don't support?<br>> <br>> <br>> Saundra Lund<br>> Moscow, ID<br>> <br>> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do<br>> nothing.<br>> ~ Edmund Burke<br>> <br>> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2007 through life plus<br>> 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside<br>> the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the<br>> author.*****<br>> <br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com]<br>> On Behalf Of Chasuk<br>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 1:49 PM<br>> To: Tom Hansen<br>> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Blight-Mind Show-n-Tell<br>> <br>> On Dec 30, 2007 12:49 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com> wrote:<br>> <br>> > Huh? What?<br>> <br>> > From the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligencer Report at:><br>> <br>> > http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=647<br>> <br>> > "[Doug] Wilson was defiant throughout, portraying his critics as<br>> > small-minded and incapable of honest scholarly inquiry. What he did not do<br>> > was make clear exactly what his goals are as he continues to expand his<br>> > religious empire.<br>> <br>> > But he offered a substantial clue last Dec. 28, when, in the midst of the<br>> > controversy, he gave a sermon discussing evangelistic "warfare" to his<br>> > congregation.<br>> <br>> > Good Christians, he said, needed to look for "decisive points" in society,<br>> > places that are both "strategic and feasible" targets to be 'taken.' New<br>> > York City, for instance, is strategic but not feasible - too many godless<br>> > liberals. Other places are feasible but not strategic - unimportant places<br>> > in the theological wars that Wilson foresees.<br>> <br>> > 'But,' Douglas Wilson added in an upbeat note that day, 'small towns with<br>> > major universities (Moscow and Pullman, say) are both.' And that, say many<br>> > residents of the Palouse, is what has them so frightened."<br>> <br>> > What is your interpretation of this, Chas?<br>> <br>> I'm familiar with this material, Tom. It has been regurgitated<br>> endlessly on this forum. My "interpretation" is, when it includes<br>> bank robberies, counterfeiting, bombings, armored car holdups, and<br>> murder, let me know. When its congregants are bonafide Neo-Nazis, let<br>> me know. Most of the Kirker congregants don't support any of their<br>> leader's nonsense, and I know this because I've taken the time to get<br>> to know them. I work on the same block as Bucers, which draws many<br>> Kirkers. I've taken advantage of the many opportunities for<br>> discourse. If Wilson tried to raly them as troops, most would join<br>> another church. Homeland Security would put Wilson in Guantanamo,<br>> and New Saint Andews would collapse due to the massive hemorrhaging of<br>> students.<br>> <br>> Most Kirkers aren't nuts, unlike most (all?) members of the Aryan<br>> Nation groups. Insurrection requires the complicity of a lot of<br>> people, and few (not any?) Kirkers are going to give it. If the<br>> popular ideological climate here was even remotely similar to how it<br>> was in Nazi Germany before WWII, then maybe this doomsaying would have<br>> a point. But it's not, so it doesn't.<br>> <br>> Maybe I should agitate against St Augustine's for disallowing women<br>> priests, or for belonging to a larger institution that has caused<br>> untold misery and death by telling the ignorant and trusting that<br>> condoms don't prevent the transmission of AIDS? True, recently they<br>> have apparently moderated that advice, but they still tell women (who<br>> can't feed the nine children they already have) to depend on the<br>> rhythm method, or practice abstinence. You know, because sex just for<br>> pleasure is evil, even if it is with your husband. That is real harm<br>> done to millions of real people, as I am writing these words.<br>> <br>> Chas<br>> <br>> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2003/10/17/note101703.DTL<br>> http://www.nomad4ever.com/2006/11/25/vatican-to-allow-use-of-condoms/<br>> <br>> <br>> =======================================================<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> http://www.fsr.net <br>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> =======================================================<br><br /><hr />Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! <a href='http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec' target='_new'>Check it out!</a></body>
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