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Legend has it that on December 14, 1914 British and German troops ceased firing at one another, allowed the wounded to be removed from the battlefield, and even sang Christmas carols at one another, exchanged small gifts, and, remarkably, played soccer, British troops vs. German troops. Perhaps, in the spirit of this Christmas season, those of us who, like me, believe in man made global warming, can get along peacefully with those who do not. A truce, as it were. Nah, the hell with it, I hate soccer. Carl Westberg Jr.<br><br><blockquote><hr>From: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com<br>To: jampot@roadrunner.com; davesway@hotmail.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:30:01 -0800<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Attendees At UN Climate Conference Pay For Conference Associated CO2 Emissions<br><br>
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Gary,<br>
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You didn't 'call Dave' on anything.<br>
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You made up a bunch of crap and claimed it was your opponents' position.<br>
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That's not a point of view, it's crap.<br>
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I don't think anyone's telling you to 'bow' to someone else's point of view. I'm certainly not doing it. I'm just pointing out that you haven't created a straw man, you've made a crap man. I suppose it was straw before the bull ate it. It ain't now.<br>
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Sunil<br>
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From: jampot@roadrunner.com<br>To: davesway@hotmail.com; sunilramalingam@hotmail.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Attendees At UN Climate Conference Pay For Conference Associated CO2 Emissions<br>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:03:05 -0800<br><br>
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<div><font face="Arial">I assume that this is an example of the new noxious stench policy you have recently instituted? How wonderful that you have found something to occupy your time. Since it looks like it's going to consist of playing "me too" and "yah, what he said" with Sunil and all the other fine folks on the V who take exception to what I post you shouldn't have to worry about running out of things to do. Now to attempt to address your individual concerns:</font></div>
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<div><font face="Arial">Aaron Ament: I have never railed against your homie for being uncivil, per se. He is free to be what ever kind of guy he chooses and I could not care less. Where I had (I LOVE being able to use that particular tense) a problem was when he decided that after demonstrating his contempt for a significant segment of the community, he imagined that he would be suitable to represent them and make decisions on their behalf. Not good and I said so. Now that Moscow has had a taste of that particular bad apple and have elected to spit it out, I'm totally comfortable with his returning to being an ordinary, run of the mill fellow expressing a point of view I disagree with and disregard.</font></div>
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<div><font face="Arial">Next, you seem to take issue with my calling KRFP Dave on his tactic of dismissing the news story because he wasn't all that fond of the source having at one time been in the presence of a conservative and my mild disparagement of MSNBC. Why, I don't know. When you can identify for me the counterparts at that network to FOX's Allen Colmes, Greta Van Susteren. Geraldo Rivera, Martin Frost, Mara Liason, Juan Williams, Bob Beckel, Susan Estrich, etc. I might grant that you have some sort of a point. Till then, not so much. I will happily admit that I think FOX has a right wing bias but MSNBC doesn't even pretend to objectivity. </font></div>
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<div><font face="Arial">The allowance that I may express my dissent against a supposed majority opinion is very generous of you and not a little amusing. The appeal to bow to the consensus of the "greater volume" is laughable, particularly coming from you. The insistence that I comply with your particular version of proper discourse is flat out hilarious. If you don't like what I post please feel free to let me know but, don't be upset when I pointedly ignore your commands to modify my presentation to conform to your notion of propriety.</font></div>
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<div><font face="Arial">g</font></div>
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<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b> <a title="davesway@hotmail.com" href="mailto:davesway@hotmail.com">david sarff</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b> <a title="sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">Sunil Ramalingam</a> ; <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:49 PM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Attendees At UNClimate Conference Pay ForConference Associated CO2 Emissions</div>
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2">You know it Sunil, here we have this indefensible junk that any "reasonable person" wouldn't shove into anyone's mouth. Gary has railed against others( Aaron Ament for one) for incivility and then turns around and expulses incivility, in volume. </font></div>
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">"Next we have the ever popular "anyone who has ever been, worked for, or been <br>> in the presence of a conservative is, by definition, a lying rat bastard." <br>> We all know that only liberals (and even then, only those who work for <br>> MSNBC) can be trusted to bring us the unvarnished truth."</font></font></div>
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><font face="Arial" size="2">It would be just as much trash if the words conservative and liberal traded places, along with the removal of MSNBC and the addition of Fox in the paragraph.</font></font></font></div>
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><font face="Arial" size="2">Express your descent imaginatively against the greater volume of science, supported by people who happen to be both liberals and conservatives, fine, yet, please knock off the bully style, Gary. It's foolish.</font></font></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><font face="Arial" size="2">Dave</font></font></font></div>
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From: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com<br>To: vision2020@moscow.com<br>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:23:26 -0800<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Attendees At UN Climate Conference Pay ForConference Associated CO2 Emissions<br><br>
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Gary,<br><br>You're the only one who makes such sweeping statements, though you're generous enough to attribute them to others, even if they don't want them. I certainly don't take the positions you want to ascribe to liberals; no thanks, you can have them back.<br><br>I will say that I am suspicious of 'scientific' claims embraced by this administration, because of their track record of having political appointees tell scientists what to say. But that's not liberal bias; that's simply how most people operate: If someone lies to you, you're careful not to take what they say next at face value. I'm sure you do this regularly. I do it with the Clintons, I absolutely do it with this administration.<br><br>Sunil<br><br>> From: jampot@roadrunner.com<br>> To: krfp@radiofreemoscow.org; vision2020@moscow.com<br>> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:15:44 -0800<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Attendees At UN Climate Conference Pay ForConference Associated CO2 Emissions<br>> <br>> Interesting response. So everything that comes from a site with a .gov <br>> address is propaganda? The folks at weather.gov, grants. gov, health.gov, <br>> sba.gov, fbi.gov, irs.gov, idaho.gov, etc. are going to be surprised and <br>> disappointed to hear that. Quite frankly I would be a lot more suspicious of <br>> information that came from a .org address. You have just GOT to know that <br>> there will be an agenda associated with anything they have to tell you.<br>> <br>> Next we have the ever popular "anyone who has ever been, worked for, or been <br>> in the presence of a conservative is, by definition, a lying rat bastard." <br>> We all know that only liberals (and even then, only those who work for <br>> MSNBC) can be trusted to bring us the unvarnished truth.<br>> <br>> Moving on, the my scientist is better then your scientist argument is <br>> brought forward. I'm sorry but here is nothing that leads me to believe that <br>> Schmidt, Harrison, and Monbiot (a journalist, not a scientist) have more <br>> access to the truth than Monckton, Evans, Gray, McShane, and Alexander. I <br>> don't see where a persons opinion with regard to those with AIDS or whether <br>> you personally think someone's a nice guy has anything to do with the <br>> accuracy of their claims.<br>> <br>> You are absolutely correct in one area however. Nothing you have posted has <br>> changed my mind and I will continue to enjoy driving my car. Are you <br>> implying that YOU will be forsaking all carbon generating forms of travel or <br>> just that you will continue to do it with a big old mopey face? I was <br>> unaware that doing the exact same things that us nasty old conservatives do <br>> but being unhappy about it was better for the environment. I'll try to frown <br>> more when I drive.<br>> <br>> g<br>> <br>> ----- Original Message ----- <br>> From: "KRFP" <krfp@radiofreemoscow.org><br>> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com><br>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 5:52 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Attendees At UN Climate Conference Pay <br>> ForConference Associated CO2 Emissions<br>> <br>> <br>> > This is not a "news item", Gary. This is a propaganda item!<br>> ><br>> > First off it's a .gov address, that should give you the first clue. If<br>> > you want to know more, here are the first few paragraphs from your<br>> > "reporter's" SourceWatch entry:<br>> ><br>> >> Marc Morano is communications director for the U.S. Senate Committee<br>> >> on Environment and Public Works. Morano commenced work with the<br>> >> committee under Senator James Inhofe, who was majority chairman of the<br>> >> committee until January 2007. In December 2006 Morano launched a blog<br>> >> on the committee's website that largely promotes the views of climate<br>> >> change sceptics.<br>> >><br>> >> Morano is a former journalist with Cybercast News Service (owned by<br>> >> the conservative Media Research Center). CNS and Morano were the first<br>> >> source in May 2004 of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth claims against<br>> >> John Kerry in the 2004 presidential election [1] and in January 2006<br>> >> of similar smears against Vietnam war veteran John Murtha.<br>> >><br>> >> Morano was "previously known as Rush Limbaugh's 'Man in Washington,'<br>> >> as reporter and producer for the Rush Limbaugh Television Show, as<br>> >> well as a former correspondent and producer for American Investigator,<br>> >> the nationally syndicated TV newsmagazine."<br>> ><br>> > http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Marc_Morano#Profiles<br>> ><br>> > The Wiki article on Lord Christopher Monckton, who is quoted, makes for<br>> > some good reading as well. Here's a snippet:<br>> ><br>> >> Gavin Schmidt has criticised Monckton's analysis of climate<br>> >> sensitivity as "sleight-of-hand to fool the unwary" [1]. Dr. Stephan<br>> >> Harrison criticises Moncktons' articles as "full of errors, misuse of<br>> >> data and cherry-picked examples" [2]. The British writer and<br>> >> environmentalist George Monbiot has criticized Monckton's arguments as<br>> >> "cherry-picking, downright misrepresentation and pseudo-scientific<br>> >> gibberish."[19] In a response published in The Guardian, Monckton has<br>> >> argued that he "got the science right" and that Monbiot got "too many<br>> >> facts wrong" and had shown "ignorance of the elementary physics".<br>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Monckton,_3rd_Viscount_Monckton_of_Brenchley<br>> ><br>> > Nice peer review!<br>> ><br>> > It also seems he's been lobbying the Senate on behalf of ExxonMobil.<br>> > He also thinks all people with AIDS should be locked up and we should<br>> > have mandatory monthly tests. Nice guy.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > I like this sentence from the Australian: " We have the missing [human]<br>> > signature [in the atmosphere], we have the IPCC models being wrong and<br>> > we have the lack of a temperature going up the last 5 years,". Except<br>> > that 2006 was the hottest year on record, just above 2005 and 1998, how<br>> > is this a "lack of temperature going up"? Have you seen the graphs?<br>> ><br>> > Of course none of this will change your mind, and in a way I'm jealous,<br>> > with your head in the sand like that you can still enjoy driving your car.<br>> ><br>> > BTW I do agree with what's been said about the carbon credit thing being<br>> > a sham. But you may not remember that it was the US (Clinton) which<br>> > insisted on including it in the Kyoto protocol in the first place (over<br>> > the objections of the majority of the delegates). As I recall, we threw<br>> > a tantrum and said we wouldn't sign if carbon trading wasn't included,<br>> > then we didn't sign anyway, total irony.<br>> ><br>> > Dave<br>> > (I suppose I should put the personal post disclaimer here)<br>> ><br>> > g. crabtree wrote:<br>> >> I generally hate to post news items to this list but, for those of you<br>> >> who've been afraid to light their Yule logs for fear of their carbon<br>> >> footprint going up half a shoe size read this, take a deep breath, and <br>> >> relax<br>> >> a little.<br>> >><br>> >> http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=c9554887-802a-23ad-4303-68f67ebd151c<br>> >><br>> >> Anybody out there that was planning on giving any of their friends or<br>> >> relatives a nice card and a bunch of bogus carbon credits may want to<br>> >> reconsider. Fire up that old coal powered sleigh and go over the river <br>> >> and<br>> >> through the woods to see Grandmother. She'll appreciate it.<br>> >><br>> >> g<br>> >><br>> ><br>> > =======================================================<br>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> > http://www.fsr.net<br>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > =======================================================<br>> > <br>> <br>> <br>> =======================================================<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> http://www.fsr.net <br>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> =======================================================<br></blockquote><br>
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