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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I assume that this is an example of the new
noxious stench policy you have recently
instituted? How wonderful that you have found something to occupy
your time. Since it looks like it's going to consist
of playing "me too" and "yah, what he said" with Sunil and all the
other fine folks on the V who take exception to what I post you shouldn't have
to worry about running out of things to do. Now to attempt to address
your individual concerns:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Aaron Ament: I have never railed against your homie
for being uncivil, per se. He is free to be what ever kind of guy he
chooses and I could not care less. Where I had (I LOVE being able to use that
particular tense) a problem was when he decided that after demonstrating his
contempt for a significant segment of the community, he imagined that he
would be suitable to represent them and make decisions on their behalf. Not good
and I said so. Now that Moscow has had a taste of that
particular bad apple and have elected to spit it out, I'm totally
comfortable with his returning to being an ordinary, run of the mill
fellow expressing a point of view I disagree with and
disregard.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Next, you seem to take issue with my calling KRFP Dave on
his tactic of dismissing the news story because he wasn't all that fond
of the source having at one time been in the presence of a conservative and
my mild disparagement of MSNBC. Why, I don't know. When you can identify for me
the counterparts at that network to FOX's Allen Colmes, Greta Van Susteren.
Geraldo Rivera, Martin Frost, Mara Liason, Juan Williams, Bob Beckel, Susan
Estrich, etc. I might grant that you have some sort of a point. Till then, not
so much. I will happily admit that I think FOX has a right wing bias but
MSNBC doesn't even pretend to objectivity. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The allowance that I may express my dissent against a
supposed majority opinion is very generous of you and not a little
amusing. The appeal to bow to the consensus of the "greater volume" is
laughable, particularly coming from you. The insistence that I comply with
your particular version of proper discourse is flat out hilarious. If you don't
like what I post please feel free to let me know but, don't be upset when I
pointedly ignore your commands to modify my presentation to conform to your
notion of propriety.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=davesway@hotmail.com href="mailto:davesway@hotmail.com">david
sarff</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=sunilramalingam@hotmail.com
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">Sunil Ramalingam</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision
2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:49
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Attendees At
UNClimate Conference Pay ForConference Associated CO2 Emissions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You know it Sunil, here we have this
indefensible junk that any "reasonable person" wouldn't shove into
anyone's mouth. Gary has railed against
others( Aaron Ament for one) for incivility and then turns
around and expulses incivility, in volume. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>"Next we have
the ever popular "anyone who has ever been, worked for, or been <BR>> in
the presence of a conservative is, by definition, a lying rat bastard."
<BR>> We all know that only liberals (and even then, only those who work
for <BR>> MSNBC) can be trusted to bring us the unvarnished
truth."</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><FONT
face=Arial size=2>It would be just as much trash if the words conservative and
liberal traded places, along with the removal of MSNBC and the
addition of Fox in the paragraph.</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><FONT
face=Arial size=2></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><FONT
face=Arial size=2>Express your descent imaginatively against the greater
volume of science, supported by people who happen to be both liberals and
conservatives, fine, yet, please knock off the bully style,
Gary. It's foolish.</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><FONT
face=Arial size=2>Dave</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR>></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com<BR>To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Date: Wed,
12 Dec 2007 11:23:26 -0800<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Attendees At UN
Climate Conference Pay ForConference Associated CO2 Emissions<BR><BR>
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Gary,<BR><BR>You're the only one who makes such sweeping statements, though
you're generous enough to attribute them to others, even if they don't want
them. I certainly don't take the positions you want to ascribe to
liberals; no thanks, you can have them back.<BR><BR>I will say that I am
suspicious of 'scientific' claims embraced by this administration, because
of their track record of having political appointees tell scientists what to
say. But that's not liberal bias; that's simply how most people
operate: If someone lies to you, you're careful not to take what they
say next at face value. I'm sure you do this regularly. I do it
with the Clintons, I absolutely do it with this
administration.<BR><BR>Sunil<BR><BR>> From: jampot@roadrunner.com<BR>>
To: krfp@radiofreemoscow.org; vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> Date: Wed, 12
Dec 2007 07:15:44 -0800<BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Attendees At UN
Climate Conference Pay ForConference Associated CO2 Emissions<BR>>
<BR>> Interesting response. So everything that comes from a site with a
.gov <BR>> address is propaganda? The folks at weather.gov, grants. gov,
health.gov, <BR>> sba.gov, fbi.gov, irs.gov, idaho.gov, etc. are going to
be surprised and <BR>> disappointed to hear that. Quite frankly I would
be a lot more suspicious of <BR>> information that came from a .org
address. You have just GOT to know that <BR>> there will be an agenda
associated with anything they have to tell you.<BR>> <BR>> Next we
have the ever popular "anyone who has ever been, worked for, or been
<BR>> in the presence of a conservative is, by definition, a lying rat
bastard." <BR>> We all know that only liberals (and even then, only those
who work for <BR>> MSNBC) can be trusted to bring us the unvarnished
truth.<BR>> <BR>> Moving on, the my scientist is better then your
scientist argument is <BR>> brought forward. I'm sorry but here is
nothing that leads me to believe that <BR>> Schmidt, Harrison, and
Monbiot (a journalist, not a scientist) have more <BR>> access to the
truth than Monckton, Evans, Gray, McShane, and Alexander. I <BR>> don't
see where a persons opinion with regard to those with AIDS or whether
<BR>> you personally think someone's a nice guy has anything to do with
the <BR>> accuracy of their claims.<BR>> <BR>> You are absolutely
correct in one area however. Nothing you have posted has <BR>> changed my
mind and I will continue to enjoy driving my car. Are you <BR>> implying
that YOU will be forsaking all carbon generating forms of travel or <BR>>
just that you will continue to do it with a big old mopey face? I was
<BR>> unaware that doing the exact same things that us nasty old
conservatives do <BR>> but being unhappy about it was better for the
environment. I'll try to frown <BR>> more when I drive.<BR>> <BR>>
g<BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "KRFP"
<krfp@radiofreemoscow.org><BR>> To: "Vision 2020"
<vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 5:52
PM<BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Attendees At UN Climate Conference Pay
<BR>> ForConference Associated CO2 Emissions<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
> This is not a "news item", Gary. This is a propaganda item!<BR>>
><BR>> > First off it's a .gov address, that should give you the
first clue. If<BR>> > you want to know more, here are the first few
paragraphs from your<BR>> > "reporter's" SourceWatch entry:<BR>>
><BR>> >> Marc Morano is communications director for the U.S.
Senate Committee<BR>> >> on Environment and Public Works. Morano
commenced work with the<BR>> >> committee under Senator James
Inhofe, who was majority chairman of the<BR>> >> committee until
January 2007. In December 2006 Morano launched a blog<BR>> >> on
the committee's website that largely promotes the views of climate<BR>>
>> change sceptics.<BR>> >><BR>> >> Morano is a
former journalist with Cybercast News Service (owned by<BR>> >> the
conservative Media Research Center). CNS and Morano were the first<BR>>
>> source in May 2004 of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth claims
against<BR>> >> John Kerry in the 2004 presidential election [1]
and in January 2006<BR>> >> of similar smears against Vietnam war
veteran John Murtha.<BR>> >><BR>> >> Morano was
"previously known as Rush Limbaugh's 'Man in Washington,'<BR>> >>
as reporter and producer for the Rush Limbaugh Television Show, as<BR>>
>> well as a former correspondent and producer for American
Investigator,<BR>> >> the nationally syndicated TV
newsmagazine."<BR>> ><BR>> >
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Marc_Morano#Profiles<BR>>
><BR>> > The Wiki article on Lord Christopher Monckton, who is
quoted, makes for<BR>> > some good reading as well. Here's a
snippet:<BR>> ><BR>> >> Gavin Schmidt has criticised
Monckton's analysis of climate<BR>> >> sensitivity as
"sleight-of-hand to fool the unwary" [1]. Dr. Stephan<BR>> >>
Harrison criticises Moncktons' articles as "full of errors, misuse
of<BR>> >> data and cherry-picked examples" [2]. The British writer
and<BR>> >> environmentalist George Monbiot has criticized
Monckton's arguments as<BR>> >> "cherry-picking, downright
misrepresentation and pseudo-scientific<BR>> >> gibberish."[19] In
a response published in The Guardian, Monckton has<BR>> >> argued
that he "got the science right" and that Monbiot got "too many<BR>>
>> facts wrong" and had shown "ignorance of the elementary
physics".<BR>> >
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Monckton,_3rd_Viscount_Monckton_of_Brenchley<BR>>
><BR>> > Nice peer review!<BR>> ><BR>> > It also seems
he's been lobbying the Senate on behalf of ExxonMobil.<BR>> > He also
thinks all people with AIDS should be locked up and we should<BR>> >
have mandatory monthly tests. Nice guy.<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>>
> I like this sentence from the Australian: " We have the missing
[human]<BR>> > signature [in the atmosphere], we have the IPCC models
being wrong and<BR>> > we have the lack of a temperature going up the
last 5 years,". Except<BR>> > that 2006 was the hottest year on
record, just above 2005 and 1998, how<BR>> > is this a "lack of
temperature going up"? Have you seen the graphs?<BR>> ><BR>> >
Of course none of this will change your mind, and in a way I'm
jealous,<BR>> > with your head in the sand like that you can still
enjoy driving your car.<BR>> ><BR>> > BTW I do agree with what's
been said about the carbon credit thing being<BR>> > a sham. But you
may not remember that it was the US (Clinton) which<BR>> > insisted on
including it in the Kyoto protocol in the first place (over<BR>> > the
objections of the majority of the delegates). As I recall, we threw<BR>>
> a tantrum and said we wouldn't sign if carbon trading wasn't
included,<BR>> > then we didn't sign anyway, total irony.<BR>>
><BR>> > Dave<BR>> > (I suppose I should put the personal
post disclaimer here)<BR>> ><BR>> > g. crabtree wrote:<BR>>
>> I generally hate to post news items to this list but, for those of
you<BR>> >> who've been afraid to light their Yule logs for fear of
their carbon<BR>> >> footprint going up half a shoe size read this,
take a deep breath, and <BR>> >> relax<BR>> >> a
little.<BR>> >><BR>> >>
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=c9554887-802a-23ad-4303-68f67ebd151c<BR>>
>><BR>> >> Anybody out there that was planning on giving any
of their friends or<BR>> >> relatives a nice card and a bunch of
bogus carbon credits may want to<BR>> >> reconsider. Fire up that
old coal powered sleigh and go over the river <BR>> >> and<BR>>
>> through the woods to see Grandmother. She'll appreciate it.<BR>>
>><BR>> >> g<BR>> >><BR>> ><BR>> >
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http://www.fsr.net<BR>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> >
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Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! <A
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target=_new>Check it out!</A>
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