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I don't know Ted. Never met him, wouldn't recognize him if he was walking down the street in front of me. However, I've found him to be honest and insightful, and he doesn't deserve this.<br><br>Keely<br><br><br><br><br><blockquote><hr>From: jampot@roadrunner.com<br>To: sdredge@yahoo.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br>Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:07:26 -0800<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Civility is a two-way street<br><br>
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2">And there we go! Why in the world would I need
to devote any effort to making Mr. Muffett look silly when he does such a
yeoman like job all by his lonesome. His " I am Spock, resurrected"
spiel takes pompous to a here to fore unexplored level and his claims
of being on the very verge of becoming a transcendent creature of pure intellect
makes me wonder if he gets out of his mothers basement much. (I picture
brain-Guy from MST3K hollering up the stairs "Quiet Ma, I'm almost ready to shed
this vile carbon based vessel and become a ray of environmentally friendly
energy. Bring me another Twinkie and a Sprite!" ) Keep pecking away on that man
made global warming obsession you've got going, I'm sure that Al Gore will be
around any day to thank you for your efforts assuming you haven't, well you
know, transformed. I know I sure am happy you've been on the case. My
appreciation is boundless, my amusement total.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Keep on thinkin' the big thoughts
Tiger,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">g</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">----- Original Message ----- </font>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">From: "Scott Dredge" <</font><a href="mailto:sdredge@yahoo.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">sdredge@yahoo.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">To: <</font><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:42
AM</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Civility is a two-way
street</font></div></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><br><font size="2"></font></font></div><font face="Arial" size="2">>> Ted wrote: <br>>> Scott et. al.<br>>><br>>>
You must be kidding?<br>>><br>> Not at all.<br>> <br>>> You
write as though you think Vision2020 is some sort of ghetto gang<br>>>
scene ("street fighter?" "toe to toe?") where making an ass of
someone<br>>> dictates dominance and power? How pathetic! The
more enlightened<br>>> readership on this list does not buy into this
crude mentality.<br>> <br>> v2020 is an unmoderated list. The more
enlightened readership hits the delete<br>> key on most of the postings
including this one without reading any further (I<br>> would hope).<br>>
<br>>> Let Gary Crabtree "make complete asses out of the both of you on
this<br>>> site," as you wrote. I''ll just sit back and
laugh!<br>> <br>> At this point, fine by me.<br>> <br>>> I am
above the sort of irrational nonsense that Gary Crabtree posts to<br>>>
this list, or to that community joke, "wrong-mind.us" I don't
care<br>>> what he says, if there is no content worth responding to, I
simply<br>>> ignore it as not worth my time. Ad hominem attacks, be
my guest.<br>>> I've faced this many times before, in rather extreme ways,
and if Gary<br>>> Crabtree thinks he can rattle my cage, "bring it on (God
bless<br>>> conservative hero and professional moron George W. Bush for
this now<br>>> immortal phrase signifying the idiocy of cowboy
macho<br>>> overconfidence)."<br>> <br>> Perfect! I hope we
don't ever again need to read from you or anyone else<br>> about how
unethical Gary was for posting a private email considering you<br>> don't
care what he posts. But since this cardinal sin is such a hot
button<br>> issue that really gets under your craw, I guess we'll just have
to wait and<br>> see who gets blamed for what wrongdoing the next time
HeirDoug or<br>> (anyone else for that matter) just 'cuts & pastes" from
the v2020 archives.<br>> <br>>> I am interested in fact based logical
discourse on important issues,<br>>> in the Truth, not personal ego
battles, or moral superiority<br>>> competitions between morally faulted
human beings (as we all are!).<br>>> Anyone following my responses to
ridiculous irrational attacks on<br>>> Vision2020, aimed my way, should
realize this.<br>> <br>> Great! Start a new thread with a new
subject line on some new topic<br>> more important than this one.<br>>
<br>>> The Temple of Reason is where I dwell on this list. And
without<br>>> radical means of persuasion, I will not falter from this
position.<br>> <br>> Good to hear.<br>> <br>>> Come on Gary, make
an ass of me! I'll relish ignoring your every<br>>> attempt, as I
continue to post on more important issues, like<br>>> anthropogenic
climate change. I know how devoted you are to<br>>> discovering the
truth on this issue, being someone focused on the<br>>> objective pursuit
of knowledge... Well, we can hope!<br>> <br>> Good to hear a couple
paragraphs above that you'll be ignoring Gary.<br>> <br>>> Ted
Moffett<br>> <br>> Scott Dredge<br>> <br>> On 12/3/07, Scott Dredge
<</font><a href="mailto:sdredge@yahoo.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">sdredge@yahoo.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">>
wrote:<br>>> Ted / Joe,<br>>><br>>> FWIW, I'm speaking for
Gary because I truly do not want to see him<br>> make complete asses out
of the both of you on this site on this issue and<br>> I'm trying to
explain this in a way that I *thought* would make sense<br>> to both of
you. Gary's not going to follow your idea of proper
list<br>> server etiquette. He doesn't give a good God Damn if
anyone thinks his<br>> posting of a private email was unethical.
He posted a private email to<br>> let everyone know he received it and
my guess is that he would prefer<br>> to receive no more emails like it
(or maybe he would like to receive<br>> them and so he can post them
publicly again). So don't send any to him.<br>>><br>>> Gary
can waste his time responding on this but he's going to make<br>> both
of you look just plain bad. If you want to go toe to toe with
Gary,<br>> be my guest. Just be aware that Gary is a street
fighter and he's not<br>> going to play by whatever rules you think he
should play by and<br>> ultimately he's going to bait both of you into
looking very foolish. He's<br>> good at it. Beyond that,
he's not emotionally charged by this issue like<br>> you and Joe are
which is what started this whole foolish nonsense to<br>> begin
with. He's not the one keeping this thing alive, the two of
your<br>> are along with a little help from HeirDoug posing in
drag. If you want<br>> this issue to go away, then drop it.
I've got nothing more to say on<br>> it so I'll just stand back, watch
the carnage that Gary dishes out, and<br>> just shake my
head.<br>>><br>>> Take it away Gary, I'm sure this is going to be
child's play for you<br>> but I've done my best to warn both of
them...<br>>><br>>> -Scott<br>>><br>>> ----- Original
Message ----<br>>> From: Ted Moffett <</font><a href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">starbliss@gmail.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">><br>>>
To: Scott Dredge <</font><a href="mailto:sdredge@yahoo.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">sdredge@yahoo.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">>; Joe
Campbell<br>> <</font><a href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net"><font face="Arial" size="2">joekc@adelphia.net</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">><br>>> Cc: </font><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><br><font face="Arial" size="2">>> Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2007 11:34:29 PM<br>>> Subject:
[Vision2020] Civility is a two-way street<br>>><br>>><br>>>
Scott et. al.<br>>><br>>> You write as though you are Gary
Crabtree's conscience in this<br>> matter,<br>>> when you write
that "He's more than happy to move forward." Let Gary<br>>> speak
for himself. Why are you speaking for him?<br>>><br>>> Also,
Joe's recent response to Gary in this thread was correct in<br>>> pointing
out that the assumption that Gary might have posted the<br>>> recent
re-posting of Joe's private e-mail, was not based on<br>>> "non-existent
evidence," as Gary claimed. The fact Gary originally<br>>> posted
this private message, and has disputed with Joe many times on<br>>>
Vision2020, is evidence to suggest Gary might engage in this conduct<br>>>
again, to undermine Joe's recent post with this subject heading,<br>>>
responding to Atwood's Daily News Op-Ed.<br>>><br>>> Also, your
argument immediately below, attempting to remove any<br>>> responsibility
for objectionable list serve conduct on the part of<br>>> Gary for posting
of a private e-mail, is questionable. It
is<br>> accepted<br>>> by almost all on this list serve that
private e-mail not be posted to<br>>> the list. If this was
happening with regularity, it would certainly<br>>> undermine the health
of this list, based in part on trust between<br>>> people for respect for
their privacy. I do not know all the details<br>>> of the case with
Wilson and Morin you refer to, but I doubt the two<br>>> examples are
precisely analogous. I have received insulting private<br>>> e-mails
from Vision2020 list members (along with a much larger<br>>> percentage of
positive private responses!), but I have
never<br>> responded<br>>> by posting these insulting private
messages.<br>>><br>>> Scott wrote:<br>>><br>>> Sending
Gary an insulting email was your fault. You apologized.<br>>>
Nothing more needs to be said. Trying to pin any blame on Gary
for<br>>> forwarding it v2020 is as weak to me as Doug Wilson's
complaint<br>>> against Terry Morin for posting supposedly secret
documents for the<br>>> whole world to see Doug as a rotten, lying
skunk.<br>>> ------------------<br>>> Vision2020 Post: Ted
Moffett<br>>><br>>><br>>> On 12/2/07, Scott Dredge
<</font><a href="mailto:sdredge@yahoo.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">sdredge@yahoo.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">>
wrote:<br>>> > Joe,<br>>> ><br>>> > When this
brouhaha first came to light, I recall you
apologizing<br>> and<br>>> Gary Crabtree accepting the
apology and saying something to effect<br>> of<br>>> "let's
move on". Gary isn't the one being petty about this and
I'm<br>> sure<br>>> he'd like nothing better than to move on
to scoring more debate<br>> points<br>>> on v2020 which is
something he does very well being the
master<br>> debater<br>>> that he is.<br>>>
><br>>> > Sending Gary an insulting email was your fault. You
apologized.<br>>> Nothing more needs to be said. Trying to pin
any blame on Gary for<br>>> forwarding it v2020 is as weak to me as
Doug Wilson's complaint<br>> against Terry<br>>> Morin for
posting supposedly secret documents for the whole world to<br>>> see
Doug as a rotten, lying skunk.<br>>> ><br>>> > There's not
much you can do about Dale or HeirDoug reposting
it<br>> again<br>>> and again. They don't quite
understand the whole "I'm sorry, I made<br>> a<br>>>
mistake, I'll try not to make the same one again" scenario.
What<br>> else<br>>> would you expect from disciples of a
rogue pastor who makes all<br>> sorts<br>>> of ludicrous
statements and never refutes them because in his
own<br>> mind<br>>> it's a weakness to admit to any mistake
(no matter how painfully<br>>> obvious)?<br>>>
><br>>> > My advice is that when Heirdoug plays this card again -
and you<br>> know<br>>> he will because he's not very
creative - leave Gary out of the mix.<br>>> He's more than happy to
move forward.<br>>> ><br>>> > -Scott<br>>>
><br>>> > ----- Original Message ----<br>>> > From: Joe
Campbell <</font><a href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net"><font face="Arial" size="2">joekc@adelphia.net</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">><br>>>
> To: </font><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><br><font face="Arial" size="2">>> >
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2007 8:46:50 PM<br>>> > Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Civility is a 2-way street.<br>>> ><br>>>
><br>>> > Ted writes: "...given Gary Crabtree was the
fully<br>>> > disclosed source of the original posting of this private
e-mail, in<br>>> > violation of the 'rule' that private messages not be
posted to<br>>> > Vision2020, it is reasonable to assume he might
engage in the same<br>>> > conduct again, correct?"<br>>>
><br>>> > Gary writes: "Making assumptions based on nonexistent
evidence is<br>>> > generally<br>>> > ill
advised."<br>>> ><br>>> > Your NAME was on the the posted
letter. How is that a lack of<br>>> evidence?<br>>>
><br>>> > For the record, I don't think you posted the recent
letter. But you<br>>> did<br>>> > post
the<br>>> > initial PRIVATE letter -- precisely so your Kirk friends
could<br>>> re-post<br>>> > it over<br>>> >
and over and over again. So it isn't exactly as if you are without<br>>>
> blame!<br>>> ><br>>> > I await your insults,
fallacies, and evasions. If nothing else,<br>> they<br>>>
> provide a<br>>> > source of amusement to the other
readers.<br>>> ><br>>> > -- Joe Campbell<br>>>
><br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>>
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