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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mr. Dredge,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Wow, talk about having a difficult time
moving on, the matter that Mr. Campbell and Mr. Moffett seem to be fixated on
happened over a year and a half ago. I had to visit the archives just to remind
myself what the original dispute revolved around. Rest assured that I am going
to devote precious little of my time or energy to the matter. I would point out
to Mr. Moffett however that it was not a "insulting private e-mail" that I
reposted it was an e-mail containing a threat of physical violence from a fellow
who had recently had the temerity to write a piece in the local paper
lecturing the community on the topic of tolerance. Insults make me
chuckle. Threats and blatant hypocrisy inspire a different reaction. That said,
I am going to let this matter drop. (again) I'll save "carnage" for matters of
greater importance then this one.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "Scott Dredge" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:sdredge@yahoo.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>sdredge@yahoo.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 12:11
AM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Civility is a two-way
street</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>> Ted / Joe,<BR>> <BR>> FWIW, I'm speaking for Gary because I
truly do not want to see him make complete asses out of the both of you on this
site on this issue and I'm trying to explain this in a way that I *thought*
would make sense to both of you. Gary's not going to follow your idea of
proper list server etiquette. He doesn't give a good God Damn if anyone
thinks his posting of a private email was unethical. He posted a private
email to let everyone know he received it and my guess is that he would prefer
to receive no more emails like it (or maybe he would like to receive them and so
he can post them publicly again). So don't send any to him.<BR>>
<BR>> Gary can waste his time responding on this but he's going to make both
of you look just plain bad. If you want to go toe to toe with Gary, be my
guest. Just be aware that Gary is a street fighter and he's not going to
play by whatever rules you think he should play by and ultimately he's going to
bait both of you into looking very foolish. He's good at it. Beyond
that, he's not emotionally charged by this issue like you and Joe are which is
what started this whole foolish nonsense to begin with. He's not the one
keeping this thing alive, the two of your are along with a little help from
HeirDoug posing in drag. If you want this issue to go away, then drop
it. I've got nothing more to say on it so I'll just stand back, watch the
carnage that Gary dishes out, and just shake my head.<BR>> <BR>> Take it
away Gary, I'm sure this is going to be child's play for you but I've done my
best to warn both of them...<BR>> <BR>> -Scott<BR>> <BR>> -----
Original Message ----<BR>> From: Ted Moffett <</FONT><A
href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>starbliss@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>> To:
Scott Dredge <</FONT><A href="mailto:sdredge@yahoo.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>sdredge@yahoo.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>; Joe Campbell
<</FONT><A href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>joekc@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>> Cc:
</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>> Sent:
Sunday, December 2, 2007 11:34:29 PM<BR>> Subject: [Vision2020] Civility is a
two-way street<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Scott et. al.<BR>> <BR>> You
write as though you are Gary Crabtree's conscience in this matter,<BR>> when
you write that "He's more than happy to move forward." Let Gary<BR>>
speak for himself. Why are you speaking for him?<BR>> <BR>> Also,
Joe's recent response to Gary in this thread was correct in<BR>> pointing out
that the assumption that Gary might have posted the<BR>> recent re-posting of
Joe's private e-mail, was not based on<BR>> "non-existent evidence," as Gary
claimed. The fact Gary originally<BR>> posted this private message, and
has disputed with Joe many times on<BR>> Vision2020, is evidence to suggest
Gary might engage in this conduct<BR>> again, to undermine Joe's recent post
with this subject heading,<BR>> responding to Atwood's Daily News
Op-Ed.<BR>> <BR>> Also, your argument immediately below, attempting to
remove any<BR>> responsibility for objectionable list serve conduct on the
part of<BR>> Gary for posting of a private e-mail, is questionable. It
is accepted<BR>> by almost all on this list serve that private e-mail not be
posted to<BR>> the list. If this was happening with regularity, it
would certainly<BR>> undermine the health of this list, based in part on
trust between<BR>> people for respect for their privacy. I do not know
all the details<BR>> of the case with Wilson and Morin you refer to, but I
doubt the two<BR>> examples are precisely analogous. I have received
insulting private<BR>> e-mails from Vision2020 list members (along with a
much larger<BR>> percentage of positive private responses!), but I have never
responded<BR>> by posting these insulting private messages.<BR>> <BR>>
Scott wrote:<BR>> <BR>> Sending Gary an insulting email was your
fault. You apologized.<BR>> Nothing more needs to be said. Trying
to pin any blame on Gary for<BR>> forwarding it v2020 is as weak to me as
Doug Wilson's complaint<BR>> against Terry Morin for posting supposedly
secret documents for the<BR>> whole world to see Doug as a rotten, lying
skunk.<BR>> ------------------<BR>> Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> On 12/2/07, Scott Dredge <</FONT><A
href="mailto:sdredge@yahoo.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>sdredge@yahoo.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
wrote:<BR>>> Joe,<BR>>><BR>>> When this brouhaha first came to
light, I recall you apologizing and<BR>> Gary Crabtree accepting the
apology and saying something to effect of<BR>> "let's move on".
Gary isn't the one being petty about this and I'm sure<BR>> he'd like
nothing better than to move on to scoring more debate points<BR>> on
v2020 which is something he does very well being the master
debater<BR>> that he is.<BR>>><BR>>> Sending Gary an
insulting email was your fault. You apologized.<BR>> Nothing more
needs to be said. Trying to pin any blame on Gary
for<BR>> forwarding it v2020 is as weak to me as Doug Wilson's complaint
against Terry<BR>> Morin for posting supposedly secret documents for the
whole world to<BR>> see Doug as a rotten, lying
skunk.<BR>>><BR>>> There's not much you can do about Dale or
HeirDoug reposting it again<BR>> and again. They don't quite
understand the whole "I'm sorry, I made a<BR>> mistake, I'll try not to
make the same one again" scenario. What else<BR>> would you expect
from disciples of a rogue pastor who makes all sorts<BR>> of ludicrous
statements and never refutes them because in his own mind<BR>> it's a
weakness to admit to any mistake (no matter how
painfully<BR>> obvious)?<BR>>><BR>>> My advice is that when
Heirdoug plays this card again - and you know<BR>> he will because he's
not very creative - leave Gary out of the mix.<BR>> He's more than
happy to move forward.<BR>>><BR>>> -Scott<BR>>><BR>>>
----- Original Message ----<BR>>> From: Joe Campbell <</FONT><A
href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>joekc@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>>> To:
</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>>>
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2007 8:46:50 PM<BR>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
Civility is a 2-way street.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Ted writes:
"...given Gary Crabtree was the fully<BR>>> disclosed source of the
original posting of this private e-mail, in<BR>>> violation of the 'rule'
that private messages not be posted to<BR>>> Vision2020, it is reasonable
to assume he might engage in the same<BR>>> conduct again,
correct?"<BR>>><BR>>> Gary writes: "Making assumptions based on
nonexistent evidence is<BR>>> generally<BR>>> ill
advised."<BR>>><BR>>> Your NAME was on the the posted letter. How is
that a lack of<BR>> evidence?<BR>>><BR>>> For the record, I
don't think you posted the recent letter. But
you<BR>> did<BR>>> post the<BR>>> initial PRIVATE
letter -- precisely so your Kirk friends
could<BR>> re-post<BR>>> it over<BR>>> and over and
over again. So it isn't exactly as if you are without<BR>>>
blame!<BR>>><BR>>> I await your insults, fallacies, and evasions. If
nothing else, they<BR>>> provide a<BR>>> source of amusement
to the other readers.<BR>>><BR>>> -- Joe
Campbell<BR>>><BR>>>
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href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
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size=2>>>
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href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
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size=2>>>
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