<DIV>Paul,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think if we give people the ability to meet their basic needs they will become better educated. It is hard to learn on an empty stomach. It is hard to do homework in the back of a station wagon. I think that the people that usually do well, go to college, get advanced degrees, are ones that usually have higher means to do so. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Best,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Donovan<BR><BR><B><I>Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">I was going to post something on this topic, so I'll tack it onto this <BR>thread since it relates and since the subject matches. What is it that <BR>we want of our children when they graduate? Do we want recent graduates <BR>to be able to make a living in a trade? Do we want students to be able <BR>to go to college so they can make a living using a higher
degree?<BR><BR>It seems to me that there needs to be more than that. The way I look at <BR>it, there is a body of knowledge that has been teased out of the world <BR>over the generations by our ancestors. The generations that are <BR>currently alive today are it's keepers. We have a responsibility to do <BR>a few things with that body of knowledge. We must first use it - thus <BR>we must each learn what we can of it and how to employ it to make our <BR>lives better. This is a lifelong endeavor. This includes the <BR>techniques of trade craft as well as the engineering sciences, and many <BR>of the other higher education degrees such as history or English. It <BR>also includes such ideas as learning from our mistakes and not repeating <BR>history yet again. We must also protect this body of knowledge. We <BR>must instill in our students the worthiness of learning for it's own <BR>sake, so that this knowledge will not disappear in some upcoming Dark <BR>Age. And we must add
to it. We must have the knowledge, the genius, <BR>the will, and the ambition to tease yet more secrets out of Nature.<BR><BR>People need to feed themselves and their families. This is obviously <BR>important. But to limit ourselves only to that will lead to a <BR>diminished body of knowledge and will ultimately result in our decline <BR>as a species.<BR><BR>What does everyone else think about this?<BR><BR>In response to Tom's question, I think that there is a minimum of <BR>information that is used by all trades. Some math, reading <BR>comprehension, the ability to memorize, and the application of logic <BR>spring to mind. I'm sure there are others. I imagine that all trades <BR>require further training, although that training may be done in the old <BR>way of a master training an apprentice. Many of the trades require <BR>licenses, exams, and/or the ability to perform on command. Some trades, <BR>such as your example of an x-ray technician, involve more formal
<BR>training than others. <BR><BR>Just as an aside, I would classify my current job as a computer <BR>programmer / analyst as a trade as opposed to an engineering <BR>discipline. It requires a mixture of skill, knowledge, and experience. <BR>A computer science degree from a university certainly helps, but it can <BR>also be picked up by a talented 12-year old to one degree or another <BR>without formal training. It's my hope that more actual engineering <BR>traits will be used in this discipline, such as measurements of <BR>correctness and more formal ways of determining if there are bugs in the <BR>code. Some day, we will license our programmers so that there will be <BR>less shoddy, bug-ridden code out there.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR><BR><BR>Tom Ivie wrote:<BR>> I've always wondered how many of the trades require math, science, <BR>> english, etc. You know the core stuff you learn in school. I keep <BR>> hearing the term trades and I don't really understand what that
<BR>> means. I have friends that became plumbers and electricians after <BR>> graduating from college. I remember from a math class in high school <BR>> where we designed roof trusses using math. I think we did angles and <BR>> some algebra using many real life examples of numerous occupations. <BR>> The one that stands out the most to me was an x-ray technician. Do <BR>> most trades require further training beyond high school? <BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> Tom & Liz Ivie<BR>><BR>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. <BR>> <HTTP: evt="51438/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs" us.rd.yahoo.com><BR>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>><BR>> =======================================================<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the communities of the Palouse since
1994. <BR>> http://www.fsr.net <BR>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> =======================================================<BR><BR>=======================================================<BR>List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>http://www.fsr.net <BR>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p> 
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