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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>You seem to be forgetting the original premise of your
argument. If the local housing market is so over built that it becomes over
run with "white elephant's that the banks are desperate to unload." Who is
it that will be willing to give the bank a price that will allow for a profit? A
more likely scenario would be that the bank would try and unload the property
before the additional expenses of its sitting empty cost it even more. As a
result the property sells for a lower ( more affordable ) price and the market
corrects.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=privatejf32@hotmail.com href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">J
Ford</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 02, 2007 5:42
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Affordable
Housing</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Not if you use your brain...the longer something remains on the
books as a liability, the less chance of any profit being made much less a
good profit being made. Common sense - get it moving, make the profit
and be done with it.<BR><BR><BR><BR>J :]<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: <A
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</A><BR>To: <A
href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">privatejf32@hotmail.com</A>; <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>Date: Thu,
1 Nov 2007 14:31:57 -0700<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Affordable
Housing<BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>So how does "desperate to unload a while elephant,"
square with "They want profit, not just to get rid of things?" The two
statements seem to contradict one another.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=privatejf32@hotmail.com href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">J
Ford</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Thursday, November 01, 2007 12:56 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] Affordable Housing</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>They don't want to operate at a loss, either,
fella!<BR><BR>Did you happen to see what happened to the CEO of
Merrill/Lynch this week? He's out due to his taking a gamble on the
housing industry and LOOSING big time - to the tune of BILLIONS of
dollars. Not something a bank is knowingly going to go into nor wish
to stay in if they can help it. So taking a white elephant and
un-loading it to the first guy with a buck is not going to cut it.
They want profit, not just to get rid of things.<BR><BR>And this is NOT
affordable housing...it's a "garage sale" mentality that no one
wants. The person buying into such a house is more encumbered than
you realize when they get into such a house. It is NOT affordable to
anyone.<BR><BR>J :]<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: jampot@roadrunner.com<BR>To: privatejf32@hotmail.com;
vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 07:37:40
-0700<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Affordable Housing<BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Perhaps you or some other "progressive" would like
to explain the error in my thinking? Goodness knows I'm not a
property/finance expert but, it seems obvious that banks, and more
importantly their shareholders don't need or want liabilities ("white
elephants") cluttering up the P&L statements. As the houses stagnate
on the market the price will drop until it becomes attractive to
someone. The very definition of affordable housing. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=privatejf32@hotmail.com
href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">J Ford</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Thursday, November 01, 2007 6:46 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] Affordable Housing</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Yeah - now THERE's some progressive thinking going
on!<BR><BR>"<FONT face=Arial>Wouldn't that be the market sorting it
self out? Doesn't one mans (or banks) "desperate to
unload white elephant" becomes another mans affordable
housing?" gc</FONT><BR><BR>J :]<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: <A
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</A><BR>To:
<A
href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">privatejf32@hotmail.com</A>;
<A href="mailto:the_ivies3@yahoo.com">the_ivies3@yahoo.com</A>; <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Affordable Housing<BR>Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007
06:39:03 -0700<BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>"I believe sooner or later, we will see a
bunch of houses sitting empty with banks desperate to unload a while
elephant."<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Wouldn't that be the market sorting it self
out? Doesn't one mans (or banks) "desperate to
unload white elephant" becomes another mans affordable
housing?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=privatejf32@hotmail.com
href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">J Ford</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=the_ivies3@yahoo.com
href="mailto:the_ivies3@yahoo.com">Tom Ivie</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Thursday, November 01, 2007 6:15 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] Affordable Housing</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>The thing is, communities around us are selling
houses at half to one quarter the prices seen in Moscow and
renting for far less than Moscow. The community and
developers (yes, they set the price of the houses they build) need
to get together and become educated in what really sells, how it
sells and why it sells. The housing in Moscow is just
ridiculous when you consider other towns, with larger populations,
are seeing houses going for so much less. I think for a town
like ours to have SO many developments with SO many houses in each
one is just short-sighted or no-sighted and I believe sooner or
later, we will see a bunch of houses sitting empty with banks
desperate to unload a while elephant.<BR><BR>I also believe that
if Moscow continues to rely on UI or WSU to be main-stayers in the
employment fields, we will see a major decline not only in
students coming to the area but people staying here. If the
current plans to move the UI colleges to other parts of the state
holds true, it will especially hurt us if we don't do something
about attracting other types of industry to this area.<BR><BR>Its
all fine and well that "New Cities" was accepted by Moscow to be
the new vision of things to come, but nothing is going to really
pick the area up economically if we can't be more supportive in
developing business opportunities rather than housing
developments. Can't sell what people can't pay for due to
lack of jobs.<BR><BR>Nor do we need to continue to allow some
groups in Moscow to become/remain tax-exempt but owning HUGE
amounts of commercial properties, yet service-demanding.<BR><BR>J
:]<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:58:17 -0700<BR>From:
the_ivies3@yahoo.com<BR>To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Affordable Housing<BR><BR>
<DIV>Hi Donovan,</DIV>
<DIV>I agree with you on this one and as you point out, this was
a problem WAY before our current city council. However,
there is also another element to affordable housing. What
I am talking about is entry level starter homes. Not to
blame the developers, because I don't know that it is their
fault, but the cost of land is not affordable, this gets passed
onto the homebuyer. It is probably a matter of economics
that the developers or builders build $200,000 on up homes on
the property. I don't blame them for wanting to get the
most money out of their investment. The fact is that
salaries have not gone up at even close to the same rate that
housing prices did. There has been a lot of purchasing of
homes done in a manner of creative financing that neither you or
I could even try, but those buying strategies have caused some
tapering off in the housing market as a direct or indirect
result. Does that higher market affect affordable housing?
I think it might. But I don't know how to explain myself
on it. Maybe someone can takeover from here and explain if
I am onto something. And the same is true if I am
completely wrong. I don't mind learning something
new.<BR><BR><B><I>Donovan Arnold
<donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=EC_EC_EC_EC_replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">
<DIV>Joe,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>While I certainly am not a trained expert, I have had
extensive experience trying to find affordable housing in
Moscow and worked with many others also trying to afford
decent housing. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>When I was in the ASUI Senate, one of my living groups
was Family Housing. That caused me to investigate the
situation because of the frequent and prevailing
problems these families had trying to find adequate housing in
the Moscow region. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I also worked with people with disabilities and could not
by law work more than a few hours each week or face losing
their medical care which was paramount for their survival.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In my own personal quest for housing, I also had trouble
finding anything decent and affordable in Moscow. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Here is why I think finding decent housing is
unaffordable in Moscow for many people;</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Income restriction. If a couple or two adults make more
than $24,000 gross, combined, they do not qualify for low
income housing. If they do, their rent is still usually about
$500-$650 a month plus utilities. So two people making
$24,000, net $20,000, must spend about $7000 on housing
and utilities. Giving them only $6500 a piece to live on for
the whole year, not a fun situation to be in! </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Another encroachment is the education exclusion for low
income housing. You cannot be a full time student at UI and
legally live in most low income housing units. Undergraduate
students taking more than 8 credits, or graduate students
taking more than 6 do not qualify for most of the low
income housing units in Moscow. Another person that doesn't
qualify is a student trying to get his or her GED. If they are
taking classes to get a GED, you cannot get into low income
housing BECAUSE you are full time student. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Market rate based low income housing assistance is
also a problem in Moscow. That is where the federal government
simply discounts housing units by about 20% below the market
rate. For example, a housing unit that is a two bedroom, one
bath unit on the open market in Moscow would be about
$625. So the rate is reduced only to about $525 a month.
Still unaffordable because Moscow's housing market is so
tight, you cannot get the rate to be affordable for many
Moscow residents. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Next, you also have rent based rent. These
units are limited, hard to get into, and generally places
you don't want to live unless you have absolutely not other
choice. </DIV>
<DIV>Unless you are on Section 8, which is hard to get
into and find a place, on want to live in a tiny cramped
noisy studio apartment, you are pretty much screwed
out of a decent affordable housing unit in Moscow.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I would also like to point out, that the problem with
Moscow housing is that there simply is not enough housing for
the population. Moscow has one of the highest per cap. unit in
the state, over 21,000 people for just 8,000
units. That drives the rent way up. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The people, that I think have the hardest time, are those
that make between $18,000 and $24,000 a year. Because at that
rate, you don't qualify for any type of government assistance,
not housing, not food stamps,not medical care, and
very limited education assistance if any.
$18,000-$24,000 is not enough to pay for housing, food,
medical care, transportation, and other basic needs in Moscow
when you have no assistance. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Because of rules and restrictions on low income housing,
many low income housing units sit empty while many who need
those housing units are not allowed in.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My suggestion would be to either change the rules so low
income housing units get filled up, or build so much housing
that the prices fall from competition. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Joe Campbell
<joekc@adelphia.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=EC_EC_EC_EC_replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">In
her recent letter to the editor, Shelley Bennett writes this
about development:<BR><BR>"... in order to get companies to
locate in Moscow, we also need affordable <BR>housing
options and support services that make living here
affordable. The <BR>actions of the current mayor and many
members of the City Council have <BR>done everything they
can over the course of the last few years to make sure
<BR>we do not have affordable housing options."<BR><BR>I
don't know much about affordable housing. What I do know, I
learned from <BR>Aaron Ament, who is a City Council member,
and Bob Stout, who served <BR>longer on City Council than
Tom Lamar. Bob was in favor of affordable housing, <BR>it
was a key issue in his campaign two years ago. Aaron, too,
is in favor of <BR>affordable housing. I have little reason
to believe that Lamar, or Linda Paul, <BR>or Evan Holmes
would not be in favor of affordable housing.<BR><BR>I have
two questions.<BR><BR>Is what Bennett says true? Has the
council made affordable housing options
worse?<BR><BR>Doesn't affordable housing begin at the point
of development? <BR><BR>I think so. I think that the
developer has a lot more control over costs <BR>than any
city council, especially if we're restricting government in
the way <BR>that Jeff thinks we should. The difference in
the cost of a single house with <BR>city fees vs. without
them is negligible, I imagine.<BR><BR>But maybe there is
something I'm missing.<BR><BR>Best,
Joe<BR><BR>=======================================================<BR>List
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& Liz Ivie
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