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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To refer to Dan, Wayne, and Walt as the water
wasting candidates is electioneering at its absolute worst. Clearly the guys are
in favor of reasonable conservation measures and are as concerned for the future
of Moscow as the candidates you so fervently support. They just don't use the
issue as a bludgeon to force the community to conform itself to their
preferred model. (with your candidates that appears to be Berkley circa 1968) So
far your side has trotted out the "they hate kids" spiel and the "they want
to flush our water down the drain" prevarication. What next, accusations of wife
beating, treason, and a general contempt for apple pie?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jeanlivingston@turbonet.com
href="mailto:jeanlivingston@turbonet.com">Bruce and Jean Livingston</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=ophite@gmail.com
href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com">Andreas Schou</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> ; <A
title=jeffh@moscow.com href="mailto:jeffh@moscow.com">Jeff Harkins</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 18, 2007 11:38
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Water
Concern?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>In part, Jeff says:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>| And frankly, I have not heard any of the statements you attribute to
<BR>| Wayne Krauss, Walter Steed or Dan Carscallen. And if they did
make <BR>| those remarks, please tell me where and when.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>For statements by your candidates, Jeff, if those statements already
provided for you in this forum by David Johnson of the Lewiston Tribune, or
the KLEW transcript, or the Daily News, all of which have already been
provided to your candidates shame, why don't you look forward to the live
recordings of their answers at the Chamber forum, all of which will soon
be available on-line and on "you tube"? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Since they've been recorded and will be placed on-line, it will be
especially interesting to see how the GMA's water-wasting candidates try to
deal with their insensitive and environmentally unsound theories, knowing that
the flip flop is waiting to be recorded, too.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I agree with you that all candidates, MCA-endorsed, GMA-endorsed,
and Evan Homes (the independent candidate running on his own), believe
that they are "for" the community, and so on and so forth. But the
vision of all is not the same, and the vision of the GMA candidates
-- Naylor Farms mine loving, all retail loving, water wasting candidates
-- does not fit with Moscow. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am convinced that Linda, Aaron, and Tom are the best
candidates. Of course, that is only my opinion. And though I
was waiting to see what was up with Walter and Evan, and we at the MCA have
not endorsed Evan, Evan's astute answers on economic development and water are
convincing me that he is the better choice.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Bruce</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>P.S. Since I am not positive that the Daily News article, that
included the candidates' water statements, had been presented on this forum, I
will copy it here.</DIV>
<DIV>
<H2>Moscow City Council candidates dive into water issues </H2>
<P
style="MARGIN-TOP: 0px; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px"></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px"><FONT
size=3>Tara Roberts, Daily News staff writer</FONT></P>
<P style="FONT-SIZE: 10px; font-color: gray"><FONT size=3>Thursday, October
18, 2007 - Page Updated at 12:00:00 AM</FONT></P><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px">
<P><FONT size=3>Moscow City Council candidates were divided on issues of water
and economic development at the Moscow Chamber of Commerce forum
Wednesday.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Due to time constraints, the candidates were able to answer
just three questions. Chamber board member Mark Loaiza, who is on the Palouse
Basin Aquifer Committee citizens advisory board, asked the candidates to
explain their views on water regulation in Moscow and what the city should do
to sustain water resources.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>All the candidates voiced support for PBAC, but disagreed
about whether Moscow is facing a declining water source.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Four-year candidate Dan Carscallen said he does not believe
there is a water supply problem, but the city should explore other water
sources for when there is a problem.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>"We can't just be one-note on the water situation," Carscallen
said. "I think it's been used as a way to stop growth in our city."</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Two-year candidate Walter Steed and four-year candidate Wayne
Krauss agreed with Carscallen that there is no immediate emergency.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Steed said he's seen conflicting statistics about the Grande
Ronde aquifer, which serves as Moscow's primary water source. He believes
engineers can find empirical evidence to show if there truly is a
problem.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Steed said he felt somewhat like he was talking "out of both
sides of (his) mouth" by questioning Moscow's rising water rates. In his job
as a consultant, he's encouraged other communities to raise their water rates.
Still, he is concerned that people in Moscow cannot afford to water their
lawns.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Krauss also lamented the loss of green lawns in
Moscow.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>"Folks, I'm tired of seeing all our yards just burned up,
including the cemetery," he said.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Krauss said there could be 200 years worth of water left in
the aquifer, but the city should consider how it's "going to stabilize our
situation." He questioned whether it is worth it to conserve water in Moscow
when more water is being used in Pullman.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Two-year candidate Evan Holmes said Moscow needs to protect
its quality drinking water, calling it an essential part of the city's
wealth.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Holmes said he's not sure if more study into the aquifer
situation is needed.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>"More conservation and more study doesn't necessarily yield
more water," he said.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Holmes said the city should have a plan in place for another
water source, such as a reservoir, and begin putting money toward
it.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Four-year candidate and current council member Aaron Ament
said the city knows the water level in the Grand Ronde is dropping, which
should be "a signal to conserve what we have."</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Four-year candidate and current council member Tom Lamar, who
also is executive director of the Palouse-Clearwater Environmental Institute,
said the city should be a good steward of water resources.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>"I think water conservation is critical," he said.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>The aquifer levels continue to drop even when the city uses
less water, Lamar said. He encourages recovering water in reservoirs or
rainwater catchment systems. People should not forget about surface-water
resources such as Paradise Creek, and be aware of how they are affected by the
city's stormwater and wastewater decisions.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Four-year candidate and current council member Linda Pall
agreed that water conservation is important. She said the city's conservation
mechanisms are working well.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>"My issue with water is we have a limited supply, we don't
know how much we have and our straw is taking out quite a bit from the aquifer
right now," she said.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>She said the city has a budget item for future studies for a
possible reservoir.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3></FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3></FONT><STRONG></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Economic development</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Chamber of Commerce board member Gary Hagen asked the
candidates what role the city should play in economic development.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Pall reiterated her desire for a city economic development
coordinator, which she tried and failed to have included in the 2008 city
budget. She said it is important to have someone "take care of the
follow-through for the city's economic development priorities."</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Ament said he supports the idea of a city development
coordinator. He also would like to see the chamber reach out to a wider group,
and more downtown businesses to join the chamber.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>"There is work to be done and I encourage the chamber in its
outreach to our area's businesses," Ament said.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>He said economic development includes caring about public
education, water resources and helping the city's existing tax
base.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Lamar said growth should focus on expanding the city's
existing businesses. Business owners have told him they stay in Moscow because
of the quality of life.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>He said the city needs a long-term vision for its
economy.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>"I have a belief that a strong economy is dependent on a
strong environment and a strong community," he said.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Holmes emphasized economic stability, a key topic in his
campaign. He said the city should focus on planning for growth in a way that
isn't divisive or "willy-nilly."</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>"Economic development doesn't really happen at the City
Council level or at the voter level," he said. "It really happens when
investors are willing to take risks on your city."</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Holmes said growth should not focus on retail, but retail
should result from other types of economic development.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>On the other hand, Steed said Moscow needs to increase its
shopping opportunities to make it more attractive to people.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Steed said he sees the Latah Economic Development Council and
chamber as marketers for the community. The city's role is to pass zoning
laws, help existing businesses and bring in more businesses. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Carscallen said the city should work in the background of
economic development, applying its codes to businesses that want to locate in
town.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Krauss said the city should work on improving its economic
image and assisting developers with their goals to locate in Moscow. Some
people perceive the community as unwelcoming to businesses.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>"If that's a perception, why do we have it?" Krauss
asked.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3></FONT><STRONG></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Public transportation</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P><FONT size=3>The candidates were more in harmony on issues of public
transportation. Forum moderator Mark Boehne asked what the city can do to
improve public transportation.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Several candidates commended the work of Tom La Pointe,
director of Valley Transit.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>"I think the best thing we can do is whatever Tom La Pointe
tells us to," Carscallen said.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Many candidates said the bus system has grown and will
continue to grow. Ament said the city has increased its funding for Moscow
Valley Transit over the past few years.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>"This is clearly something our community supports," he
said.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Ament and Lamar said they'd like to see funds generated to add
a third route and increase the bus system's hours. Holmes said the city grant
writer should put efforts toward finding funds.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Lamar said it is vital to continue the Wheatland Express bus
service between Moscow and Pullman, and Krauss said the city should consider
utilizing the rail lines between the cities for transportation.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Steed, who was a founding member of the Transportation
Commission with Lamar, said the city should focus on "multimodal"
transportation and connect sidewalks as well as support the bus
system.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Krauss also said the city should consider creating a trolley
system, an idea he heard from Pall.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Pall called the trolley idea "light, light rail" and suggested
routes from the University of Idaho Administration Building to Friendship
Square and from Friendship Square around the city to Mountain View
Road.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>The trolley idea is a ways in the future, Pall said. If it is
ever a reality, it will need the support of the UI.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>"We absolutely need their help and support to make public
transportation work," Pall said.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3><IMG src="http://www.dnews.com/images/square.gif"
border=0>Other forums will be 11:30 a.m. Friday at the Best Western-University
Inn, sponsored by the AARP, and at 7 p.m. Tuesday in the Moscow High School
Auditorium, sponsored by the League of Women Voters and the Moscow-Pullman
Daily News. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3><STRONG>Tara Roberts </STRONG>can be reached at (208)
882-5561, ext. 234, or by e-mail at
troberts@dnews.com.</FONT></P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message -----
<DIV>From: "Jeff Harkins" <<A
href="mailto:jeffh@moscow.com">jeffh@moscow.com</A>></DIV>
<DIV>To: "Andreas Schou" <<A
href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com">ophite@gmail.com</A>>; <<A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>></DIV>
<DIV>Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 10:48 PM</DIV>
<DIV>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>| If the facts are so readily available, please enlighten us
all.<BR>| <BR>| I've read all the material from the last several water forums,
<BR>| committees and so forth. There is certainly no consensus evident
<BR>| from the materials I read. Do you have a particular source or
<BR>| reference that would validate your statements?<BR>| <BR>| And frankly, I
have not heard any of the statements you attribute to <BR>| Wayne Krauss,
Walter Steed or Dan Carscallen. And if they did make <BR>| those
remarks, please tell me where and when.<BR>| <BR>| You raise an interesting
point about relations with Pullman and <BR>| tangentially with Whitman
officials. I have visited with a couple of <BR>| elected officials from
Pullman and from Whitman. It was made rather <BR>| clear to me that
Pullman would have been delighted to talk with <BR>| Moscow officials about
the various water issues and policies and <BR>| other matters of concern
between our two communities. But, in their <BR>| mind, the contacts from
our side have more or less poisoned that well <BR>| - when you threaten to sue
your neighbors, when you interfere in <BR>| their activities, and attempt to
coerce them to agree with you - it <BR>| does make it difficult to have a
dialogue.<BR>| <BR>| Wayne Krauss, Walter Steed and Dan Carscallen are
probably our best <BR>| choices for bringing reason and rationale to the
political quagmire <BR>| we find ourselves in now.<BR>| <BR>| On the bright
side, a change in our management may offer another <BR>| chance to revisit
Pullman officials, to open some doors, to have some <BR>| conversations,
etc. I suspect Pullman would be very willing to work <BR>| with us, but
I am fairly certain they have no interest in working for <BR>| us. They
are charting their own course - as is their right and responsibility.<BR>|
<BR>| Please let me know if you can provide me with citations about the <BR>|
statements you attribute to Walter, Wayne and Dan. Also, any new <BR>|
studies that affirm your claims about the aquifer status and its <BR>| future
would also be helpful.<BR>| <BR>| <BR>| At 10:10 PM 10/18/2007, you
wrote:<BR>| >Jeff --<BR>| ><BR>| >You've confused opinions with
facts.<BR>| ><BR>| >The GMA candidates have the right to whatever
opinions they like. They<BR>| >can believe that it will be fine if we reach
the bottom of the<BR>| >aquifer. They can believe that we can get water
from elsewhere at<BR>| >reasonable cost. They can believe that we can
negotiate with Pullman<BR>| >to keep them from depleting our shared aquifer
at an unreasonable<BR>| >rate. All of these things are reasonable
opinions.<BR>| ><BR>| >Wrong, but reasonable.<BR>| ><BR>| >The
issue of whether we are depleting our aquifer at a rate greater<BR>| >than
the rate of replenishment isn't a matter of opinion. It is a<BR>| >matter
of fact. Similar, for instance, to the fact that the Earth is<BR>| >getting
warmer. GMA can either provide its own peer-reviewed<BR>| >projections or
start talking about the facts as they exist.<BR>| ><BR>| >Wishful
thinking is not a water policy.<BR>| ><BR>| >-- ACS<BR>| ><BR>|
><BR>| >On 10/18/07, Jeff Harkins <<A
href="mailto:jeffh@moscow.com">jeffh@moscow.com</A>> wrote:<BR>| >
><BR>| > > Gary, good to see your clear and concise comments
making a difference.<BR>| > > Here are some of my observations.<BR>|
> ><BR>| > > Ideologues are all around us in this
region. They have no solution to<BR>| > > resolve the water issue
(or much of any other issue) but they follow the<BR>| > > same tactic
used since the creation of the MCA; fear, intimidation,<BR>| > >
heckling and smearing are their tools. If you support an organization
like<BR>| > > GMA, you are publicly chided for supporting candidates
endorsed <BR>| > by them. In<BR>| > > other words, you don't
know as much as the MCA people and therefore your<BR>| > > voices and
your opinions don't matter.<BR>| > ><BR>| > > Frankly, all
the candidates for city council seem to be honest, <BR>| > sincere and<BR>|
> > interested in doing what they perceive to be the best things for
the<BR>| > > community. But when the actions of supporters and/or
candidates sense a<BR>| > > challenge to their "vision for Moscow",
rather than debate the issue, they<BR>| > > turn on the candidate and
chide them for their opinions. Wayne Krauss,<BR>| > > Walter Steed
and Dan Carscallen are all honorable men. They have <BR>| > spent
most<BR>| > > of their adult lives in this community. They have a
right to be <BR>| > respected -<BR>| > > for their views, for their
willingness to step up to the challenge of city<BR>| > > council and for
their willingness to engage in honorable debate with<BR>| > > candidates
that they don't agree with.<BR>| > ><BR>| > > In a similar
vein, Linda Pall, Aaron Ament, Tom Lamar and Evin Holmes are<BR>| > >
honorable folks. Most have spent a good portion of their adult lives in<BR>|
> > Moscow and they should be respected for their willingness to serve
our<BR>| > > community.<BR>| > ><BR>| > > To indict
any of them for their opinions and views on a topic simply<BR>| > >
validates that our citizens should not vote for the candidate the
indictors<BR>| > > are supporting but should vote for the candidate
being scalloped. Issues<BR>| > > and answers and policies such as
the water question are founded first in<BR>| > > science. Let the
science do the talking - report studies, provide links to<BR>| > > the
scientific evidence, establish the proposition of your hypothesis and<BR>|
> > then talk about strategies for solutions. It is "very
difficult" <BR>| > to resolve<BR>| > > a problem with rhetoric and
finger pointing (Joe and Bruce, you are<BR>| > > encouraged to think
about this very carefully).<BR>| > ><BR>| > > This coming
election will say a lot about our community and about the<BR>| > >
future we chart for ourselves. It is time for the hand-wringers to move
to<BR>| > > the sidelines. We need decisive, thoughtful and
forthright leadership to<BR>| > > guide us through the challenges that
lay ahead. Will we have a community<BR>| > > that can support our
children and the children of our children? Will we be<BR>| > >
able to welcome new residents with a bundle of opportunities that entices<BR>|
> > them to stay or will we winnow them out - because they don't fit
into our<BR>| > > lifestyle? Will we have the type of community
that encourages <BR>| > entrepreneurs<BR>| > > to come here and risk
their investment capital here or will we worry<BR>| > > ourselves to
death over whether or not this business or that business is<BR>| > >
"acceptable"? What I have learned from listening to the forums this
past<BR>| > > couple of years is that even if Santa Claus wanted to move
his operation<BR>| > > here, there would be at least a handful of people
who would object to that<BR>| > > move.<BR>| > ><BR>| >
> For my taste, it is time for a change in Moscow.<BR>| >
><BR>| > ><BR>| > > At 07:02 PM 10/18/2007, you
wrote:<BR>| > ><BR>| > > Conservation can never be a bad idea but
using the water issue as a club to<BR>| > > force other ideological
visions on the community where they don't <BR>| > apply (big<BR>| > >
box ordinances for one example) is disingenuous. I don't believe that the<BR>|
> > GMA endorsed candidates are suggesting that we make a desperate
attempt to<BR>| > > suck the aquifer dry before their terms expire. To
suggest otherwise is<BR>| > > simply partisan politics at its
worst.<BR>| > ><BR>| > > g<BR>| > > -----
Original Message -----<BR>| > > From: "Tom Hansen" <<A
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A>><BR>| >
> To: "'g. crabtree'" <<A
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</A>>; "'Joe
Campbell'"<BR>| > > <<A
href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net">joekc@adelphia.net</A>>; <<A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>>; "'Mark
Solomon'"<BR>| > > <<A
href="mailto:msolomon@moscow.com">msolomon@moscow.com</A>><BR>| >
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 4:29 PM<BR>| > >
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Water Concern?<BR>| > ><BR>| > >
>g -<BR>| > > ><BR>| > > > You suggested that
perhaps none of the city council candidates have a<BR>| > > firm<BR>|
> > > handle on the water situation.<BR>| > >
><BR>| > > > If this is true, wouldn't it be better advised
to err on the side of<BR>| > > > caution?<BR>| > >
><BR>| > > > Both Lamar and Ament cited PBAC as authorities
on the figures they<BR>| > > presented<BR>| > > >
yesterday at the CofC Forum. Krauss cited "something [he] read<BR>| >
> somewhere"<BR>| > > > and Steed simply wants to remove
limitations and controls.<BR>| > > ><BR>| > > >
Your thoughts?<BR>| > > ><BR>| > > > Seeya round
town, Moscow.<BR>| > > ><BR>| > > > Tom
Hansen<BR>| > > > Moscow, Idaho<BR>| > > ><BR>|
> > > "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college
students. The college<BR>| > > > students are not very active
in local elections (thank goodness!)."<BR>| > > ><BR>| >
> > - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)<BR>| > >
><BR>| > > > -----Original Message-----<BR>| > >
><BR>| > > > From: <A
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</A>
[<BR>| > > <A
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</A>]<BR>|
> > > On Behalf Of g. crabtree<BR>| > > > Sent:
Thursday, October 18, 2007 3:33 PM<BR>| > > > To: Joe Campbell;
<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>; Mark
Solomon<BR>| > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water
Concern?<BR>| > > ><BR>| > > > I assume the
statement that includes "...regarding<BR>| > > > the upper
aquifer which if continued to be pumped at current <BR>| > levels
could<BR>| > > be<BR>| > > ><BR>| > > > in
crisis as soon as 15-20 years from now." is couched that way to leave<BR>|
> > > room for the obvious corollary?<BR>| > >
><BR>| > > > Could be 50-75 years, could be 115-120 years?
Could be we really don't<BR>| > > know<BR>| > > > for
sure? Could be that Krauss, Carscallen, and Steed have as firm a<BR>| >
> handle<BR>| > > > on the water situation as any of the MCA
candidates do.<BR>| > > ><BR>| > > > g<BR>| >
> ><BR>| > > ><BR>| > > ><BR>| >
> ><BR>| > >
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